Diverse Den store flytråden

[Hardingfele]

Dette ser ganske ekstremt ut, men jeg er redd det er langt fra det eneste tilfellet.

Hele ledelsen i Boeing burde få noen tiår i fengsel. Det selskapet ble styrt av idioter, som kom til at ingeniører er altfor vanskelige, vekk med dem.
Flyene er farlige.

 

[ottone]

Sola Airshow kunngjorde en virkelig sensasjon idag

Bare å glede seg

 

[Aurora]

Da tror jeg bætterdø at jeg må ta en tur... over 20 år siden jeg var på de kanter...

 

[xerxes]

Dere har sjekket datoen i dag?

 

[xerxes]

Men jeg vurderer også Sola.

 

[Pink_Panther]

Det var spektakulært.

Hilsen en som var der.


Tji-hi

 

[xerxes]

Ganske utrolig å komme seg hjem i de restene der ...
Fra reddit, hvor det er 2 kommentarer til bildet, den første er vel mest sannsynlig?
"Looks like a mid-air collision. Cannon and machine gun fire leaves holes, not dents.

Edit: after doing some research, I am pretty much convinced this is not actually Alton Frazer's Corsair, but another aircraft from VMF-113 that was damaged in a ground collision.

The list of FG Corsair USN Accidents lists a VF-113 Corsair number 88441, flown by 1st Lt. Russell Hunchar, that was involved in a ground collision by aircraft 88399. Notice that the aircraft in the picture has 441 on its cowl.

The collision occurred on 4 July 1945, two weeks after the dogfight in OP's post.

For what it's worth, Lt. Hunchar was also involved in the dogfight in which Lt. Fraser's airplane was damaged.

This same photo appears in the book Genda's Blade which recounts the dogfight. The photo is credited to Olga Hunchar.

As I mentioned, the type of damage on the aircraft in the picture doesn't look like cannon fire, but does look like what would happen if a parked aircraft were hit by another moving Corsair - as happened to 88441 on 4 July. The slash near the canopy is at the height where a wingtip would be, and the damage to the left wing was probably caused by the propeller."


"It is a combat damage, it happened on June 22nd, 1945 in engagement over Amami Oshima where about 20 Corsairs from VMF-113, led by Major Orvin H. Ramlo carried a standard CAP barrier preventing any aircraft from flying to Okinawa. Among them was 2nd Lt. Alson C. Frazer flying a top cover in his FG-1D. VFM-113 was engaged by a group of less than 30 Shiden-Kais from 343rd Kokutai under command of Lt. Oshibuchi.

Section in which was Alson Frazer got attacked form above by 7 N1K2-Js of 301st Squadron, during combat Corsair division broke into 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 dogfights. Frazer tried to rejoin his leader 1/Lt Johnson, but suddenly a George came into view on his right, flying to the left and Frazer managed to score a victory with a carefully led deflection shot. George canopy shattered and a large chunk of metal flew off the right wing root. Most likely Frazer hit Lt Keijiro Hayashi aircraft who was leading Japanese 1st division of the 2nd Chutai. Hayashi disengaged and hid in clouds, but as the aircraft was trailing a white smoke and way to Kyushu was long he never made it and was posted missing.

Here is how Frazer recalls the moment after scoring hits, when he realized that someone also got him in his sights:

“I began to notice that my left wing was disintegrating. I heard no shots, I heard no gunfire. But became visually aware that my left wing was coming apart. So I realized that i had been hit, so I broke off my left turn and rolled out and pitched over and commenced to dive. I remember being quite frightened. My adrenaline was undoubtedly very high but my mental capacities were good. I just felt that I’ve been hit, OK, he won, I lost, now let’s go home!”

Frazer was briefly followed by a Shiden-Kai which kept shooting, but eventually in clouds disengaged. Frazer left the dogfight and landed safely in his damaged machine.

But not everyone was so lucky that day as 343rd Kokutai returned to its home missing four pilots (Lt Keijiro Hayashi, CPOs Sueo Ishizue and Takashi Yanagisawa and PO 1/c Susumu Tsuchiya) while VMF-113 lost 2 pilots and 2 machines with three other damaged.

Unit’s post action report was following:

“The enemy planes and pilots engaged were by no means of the type usually encountered. Their planes were good and the pilots skilled and aggressive. A very good formation was flown and maintained. Deception was used by sending in one division as decoy. The planes waiting above were grouped in four-plane divisions, sections roughly abreast, and divisions stacked. They attacked by divisions in the following manner: The whole division executed a chandelle to the left, thus starting a diving approach on opposite course with altitude advantage. The division then split into two sections, one going to each side of the target planes and executed high side runs simultaneously, completing the run by tailing in and joining."

Following day marked also end of organized resistance on Okinawa."

 

[Spiralis]

Og da oppsto begrepet: "On a wing and a prayer."

Og som det ofte sies etter et slagsmål: "Skulle gjerne sett hvordan han andre så ut!"

 

[Valentino]

Ser ut som kollisjon gjør det ikke?

 

[Asbjørn]

Jo, men hullet rett bak cockpit tyder på at noen hadde marginene på sin side her.

 

[KjellR]

Ganske utrolig å komme seg hjem i de restene der ... Vis vedlegget 1012827

Tøff flyveboks!

Har fryktelig lyst til å kjøpe denne modellen (ferdigbygd)...

 

[xerxes]

Tøff flyveboks!

Har fryktelig lyst til å kjøpe denne modellen (ferdigbygd)... Vis vedlegget 1013040

Tøffere enn toget.
Corsair ble vel brukt i Koreakrigen også tror jeg?

 

[KjellR]

Tøffere enn toget.
Corsair ble vel brukt i Koreakrigen også tror jeg?

Jepp.

 

[otare]

Det var vel det siste (eneste) flyet med stempelmotor som skjøt ned et jetfly?

BTW: Måkevingene hadde det fordi propellen var så stor at den ville tatt nedi hvis flyet hadde "normale" vinger. Med "normale" vinger ville understellet bli så langt at det ville blitt for svakt (har jeg lest et eller annet sted).
Det tøffeste jagerflyet fra 2. VK.

 

[Halair]

....Måkevingene hadde det fordi propellen var så stor at den ville tatt nedi hvis flyet hadde "normale" vinger....

For å kunneta ut Hk-effekten fra motoren måte store skovler til, hvert propellblad er ca 190cm i lengde = 4m i propellomkrets...

 

[Spiralis]

Det var vel det siste (eneste) flyet med stempelmotor som skjøt ned et jetfly?

BTW: Måkevingene hadde det fordi propellen var så stor at den ville tatt nedi hvis flyet hadde "normale" vinger. Med "normale" vinger ville understellet bli så langt at det ville blitt for svakt (har jeg lest et eller annet sted).
Det tøffeste jagerflyet fra 2. VK.

Mener at også Mustanger skjøt ned jetfly i Korea. Under WWII var det flere stempelmotorfly som "parkerte" jetfly. I allefall i henhold til Clostermanns bok.

 

[erato]

Typisk når de gikk inn for landing.

 

[erato]

For å kunneta ut Hk-effekten fra motoren måte store skovler til, hvert propellblad er ca 190cm i lengde = 4m i propellomkrets...

Og dreiemomentet var en virkelig killer ved avgang som tok livet av uerfarne piloter som ga på for mye.

 

[Valentino]

Hawker Tempest V (Clostermann fløy slike i 45) hadde 4,3 m propelldiameter og var også notorisk vanskelig ved takeoff. Den hadde ikke måkevinger, men så var den da heller ikke laget for hangarskipslandinger.

 

[Asbjørn]

Mener at også Mustanger skjøt ned jetfly i Korea. Under WWII var det flere stempelmotorfly som "parkerte" jetfly. I allefall i henhold til Clostermanns bok.

Det stemmer nok. Det var ikke så mye annet enn propellfly vs Me-262. Metoden var å forsøke å overraske dem på vei inn mot landing.

Har ikke sett noe om at en Mustang greide å vinne over MiG-15, men en Sea Fury greide det også. Generelt var MiG-15 nokså jevnbyrdig med F-86 Sabre. Ifølge Wikipedia ble 28 F-51 Mustang meldt skutt ned av sovjetiske MiG-15. Å skyte ned en med et propellfly må nok gå på kontoen for ren flaks.

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hawker Sea Fury - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How the Navy Tamed the “Killer Corsair”

A little piece of aluminum solved the WW2 fighter’s vicious behavior problem.

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[otare]

Det er visst Douglas Skyraider som har den æren. Så sent som i 1966 ble en Mig-17 skutt ned av en slik.

The most unusual MiG killer: the Skyraider air-to-air victories on North Vietnamese MiG-17s

The Douglas Skyraider has been the last piston engine propelled aircraft to shoot down a jet fighter. The last propeller U.S. Navy attack aircraft to

theaviationist.com

 

[SAL]

Ganske utrolig å komme seg hjem i de restene der ... Vis vedlegget 1012827
Fra reddit, hvor det er 2 kommentarer til bildet, den første er vel mest sannsynlig?
"Looks like a mid-air collision. Cannon and machine gun fire leaves holes, not dents.

Edit: after doing some research, I am pretty much convinced this is not actually Alton Frazer's Corsair, but another aircraft from VMF-113 that was damaged in a ground collision.

The list of FG Corsair USN Accidents lists a VF-113 Corsair number 88441, flown by 1st Lt. Russell Hunchar, that was involved in a ground collision by aircraft 88399. Notice that the aircraft in the picture has 441 on its cowl.

The collision occurred on 4 July 1945, two weeks after the dogfight in OP's post.

For what it's worth, Lt. Hunchar was also involved in the dogfight in which Lt. Fraser's airplane was damaged.

This same photo appears in the book Genda's Blade which recounts the dogfight. The photo is credited to Olga Hunchar.

As I mentioned, the type of damage on the aircraft in the picture doesn't look like cannon fire, but does look like what would happen if a parked aircraft were hit by another moving Corsair - as happened to 88441 on 4 July. The slash near the canopy is at the height where a wingtip would be, and the damage to the left wing was probably caused by the propeller."


"It is a combat damage, it happened on June 22nd, 1945 in engagement over Amami Oshima where about 20 Corsairs from VMF-113, led by Major Orvin H. Ramlo carried a standard CAP barrier preventing any aircraft from flying to Okinawa. Among them was 2nd Lt. Alson C. Frazer flying a top cover in his FG-1D. VFM-113 was engaged by a group of less than 30 Shiden-Kais from 343rd Kokutai under command of Lt. Oshibuchi.

Section in which was Alson Frazer got attacked form above by 7 N1K2-Js of 301st Squadron, during combat Corsair division broke into 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 dogfights. Frazer tried to rejoin his leader 1/Lt Johnson, but suddenly a George came into view on his right, flying to the left and Frazer managed to score a victory with a carefully led deflection shot. George canopy shattered and a large chunk of metal flew off the right wing root. Most likely Frazer hit Lt Keijiro Hayashi aircraft who was leading Japanese 1st division of the 2nd Chutai. Hayashi disengaged and hid in clouds, but as the aircraft was trailing a white smoke and way to Kyushu was long he never made it and was posted missing.

Here is how Frazer recalls the moment after scoring hits, when he realized that someone also got him in his sights:

“I began to notice that my left wing was disintegrating. I heard no shots, I heard no gunfire. But became visually aware that my left wing was coming apart. So I realized that i had been hit, so I broke off my left turn and rolled out and pitched over and commenced to dive. I remember being quite frightened. My adrenaline was undoubtedly very high but my mental capacities were good. I just felt that I’ve been hit, OK, he won, I lost, now let’s go home!”

Frazer was briefly followed by a Shiden-Kai which kept shooting, but eventually in clouds disengaged. Frazer left the dogfight and landed safely in his damaged machine.

But not everyone was so lucky that day as 343rd Kokutai returned to its home missing four pilots (Lt Keijiro Hayashi, CPOs Sueo Ishizue and Takashi Yanagisawa and PO 1/c Susumu Tsuchiya) while VMF-113 lost 2 pilots and 2 machines with three other damaged.

Unit’s post action report was following:

“The enemy planes and pilots engaged were by no means of the type usually encountered. Their planes were good and the pilots skilled and aggressive. A very good formation was flown and maintained. Deception was used by sending in one division as decoy. The planes waiting above were grouped in four-plane divisions, sections roughly abreast, and divisions stacked. They attacked by divisions in the following manner: The whole division executed a chandelle to the left, thus starting a diving approach on opposite course with altitude advantage. The division then split into two sections, one going to each side of the target planes and executed high side runs simultaneously, completing the run by tailing in and joining."

Following day marked also end of organized resistance on Okinawa."

Den ble skadet på bakken dessverre....., men hadde vært heftig om historien om luftkamp stemte.

Mvh.
SAL

 

[Hardingfele]

On Wednesday, another whistleblower, Boeing engineer Sam Salehpour, alleged the company took shortcuts in its production of 787 and 777 jets and, as a result, the planes have serious structural flaws.

"I literally saw people jumping on the pieces of the airplane to get them to align, basically by jumping up and down your deforming parts so that the holes align temporarily and you can hit a piece with a mallet so that you can go into the hole. And that's not how you build an airplane," Salehpour told reporters.

New whistleblower claims put Boeing's quality control under more scrutiny

ABC News' Gio Benitez spoke with "Start Here" about the new allegations made by a Boeing engineer.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Valentino]

Hvorfor kamuflasjemale et kampfly symmetrisk? Noen som vet hvorfor det kan ha noe for seg?

 

[Spiralis]

Det er flere "skoler" når det gjelder dette med kamuflasje av fly. Og likeledes har det vært forsøkt mange rare løsninger. Men i dag er det som gjelder at kamuflasje
i utgangspunktet er der for å kunne "gjemme" flyet når det står på bakken. I lufta er det så mange sensorer som kan avsløre flyets tilstedeværelse, og misiler blir ofte avfyrt før man ser det fiendtlige flyet med øynene. Fly som i utgangspunktet skal fly høyt er ofte gråfargede eller svarte slik at de ikke skal stikke seg ut i forhold til luften over dem. Høyt oppe er himmelen svart. Fly på hangarskip er ofte ikke kamuflert da dette er brotkastet. Vanskelig å få et svært hangarskip til å
forsvinne! Men til ditt direkte spørsmål tror jeg at dette er et "Peacetime" mønster og at det vil endre seg ganske fort den dagen Putin banker på døra.

 

[Valentino]

En sak jeg ser er at den forsøker å se ut som noe annet enn en Gripen.

 

[Asbjørn]

Det er en form for «splinter camouflage». Formålet er å bryte opp den visuelle silhuetten og forsinke gjenkjenning. Svenskene har brukt varianter av det i mange år, basert på/inspirert av tysk Splittertarn. Hvorfor det er symmetrisk på Gripen vet jeg ikke.

Saab Unveils Gripen E In Brand New Splinter Color Scheme

Aircraft serialled 6002, sporting Swedish Air Force markings, was photographed in the new outstanding camouflaged scheme during a recent test flight. Saab

theaviationist.com

Splinter pattern camouflage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

M90 (camouflage) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PederP]