Synes vi skal importere litt flere billige anleggsgartnere fra Litauen basert på nulltimerskontrakter i bemanningsbyråer plassert i Litauen, slik at deffeknotten får føle på kroppen de negative sidene av EU. Er du like fan av EU når du har mistet jobben din?
Politikk, religion og samfunn Mens vi venter på Brexit
- Trådstarter Roald
- Startdato
Diskusjonstråd Se tråd i gallerivisning
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Ikke veldig hyggelig er jeg redd.UUtgatt24668
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Folk liker ikke endring så EU blir target for denne misnøyen. Men det er en endring vi trenger for å være konkurransedyktig mot U.S. og Asia.
UK er virkelig ført bak lyset av noen få egosentriske personligheter. Det startet med Cameron, og endte opp med fjøsnissen.
UK er ikke ferdig med å grave sin egen grav ennå...
Cameron er blitt ulven som startet det hele, men det var vel en total feilberegning av resultatet av folkeavstemmingen som har gjort han til syndebukk for det hele....UUtgatt24668
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Ja, jeg synes det var stor gambling på vegne av uk.
I følge en viss engelskmann, mobilserte "Leave" for alt det det var verdt, mens "Stay" stort sett drev og lette etter sine kalosjer, - dermed ble det et knapt flertall for leave.....GGjestemedlem
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Tja, man kan vel neppe klandre Cameron for brexit. Det er tross alt et flertall det britiske folket som har stemt nei til EU, og det må man respektere.
Hadde Corbyn og Labour harr integritet nok til å anerkjenne et valgresultat selv om de var uenig i utfallet, og latt være å trenere, sabotere og blokkere for gjennomføringen av folkeviljen så kunne dette valget ha handlet om helt andre ting, men kombinasjonen av å nekte å forholde seg til et demokratisk valg og samtidig ha en historisk upopulær ledelse så gikk det vel som det måtte.GGjestemedlem
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Alt annet enn Corbyn
Blant de innbyggerne i Bolsover som BBC har snakket med, er det tydelig. De ville ha alt annet enn Corbyn.
– Ingen her stoler på Jeremy Corbyn. Det er på grunn av de tingene han har gjort i fortiden, slik som IRA-greiene. Hvis Arbeiderpartiet fikk en ny leder, ville folk vært mye gladere, sier seksbarnsmoren Mandy McKenna.
McKennas familie hadde stemt Arbeiderpartiet hele livet, fram til nå. Og de var ikke de eneste.
Den tidligere gruvearbeideren Malcolm Tomlinson deltok i to streiker mot Thatcher på 80-tallet. I år stemte han konservativt.
– Jeg har stemt Arbeiderpartiet hele livet, men jeg bare liker ikke Corbyn og kompanjongene hans. Det har ingenting med Brexit å gjøre, selv om vi stemte for. Hadde Arbeiderpartiet hatt en skikkelig leder, hadde jeg ikke endret meg, sier 75-åringen.
https://www.nrk.no/urix/valgsjokket-i-storbritannia_-derfor-falt-_beistet-fra-bolsover_-1.14823898GGjestemedlem
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Jo Swinson to Laura Pidcock: the seven biggest scalps from election night
John Connolly
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...the-seven-biggest-scalps-from-election-night/
It’s been a remarkable election night. The Tories have won a big majority in the House of Commons and stormed the so-called ‘Red Wall’ of Labour seats in the North and Midlands, which have voted red for decades. As expected after such a tumultuous election, there have been some high-profile casualties along the way.
Here are the seven biggest names to lose their seats:
Jo Swinson
Jo Swinson’s loss of her East Dunbartonshire seat will be viewed as the ultimate ‘Portillo moment’ of the 2019 election campaign, made all the more noteworthy because of Swinson’s own grand rhetoric when the election was called. Swinson started the campaign in November saying she would be the next PM. She ended it not even being able to say she was an MP. The Lib Dems underperformed this election, but in the end suffered the ultimate humiliation of losing their leader too.
Laura Pidcock
Ahead of tonight’s election result, Labour activists were said to be worried that Laura Pidcock, the Shadow Secretary of State for Employment Rights could lose in the Labour heartland of North West Durham. The election results this morning showed they were right to be worried. In a devastating blow to the Labour leadership, not only did the party lose a key Corbynite stalwart, they also broke their historic connection with their traditional supporters in the former mining communities of the North East. Since its creation in 1950, the North West Durham constituency has never backed a non-Labour candidate. Laura Pidcock becomes the first Labour MP to lose in the area, a remarkable fall from grace after being tipped to be the next Labour leader.
Chuka Umunna
Chuka Umunna’s rollercoaster career – which saw him resign from the Labour shadow cabinet, leave the party to join the ‘Independent Group’, form the new party Change UK, leave the party to become an independent, and then join the Lib Dems – has come to an abrupt end. Umunna came second in Cities of London & Westminster tonight as the Lib Dem candidate, behind the Conservatives’ Nickie Aiken. The former MP had hoped to unite the Remain vote in the constituency, but in the end not enough Labour voters were willing to abandon their party to support Umunna’s campaign.
Zac Goldsmith
Former London mayoral candidate and Environment minister Zac Goldsmith was one of the few Tory casualties of election night, losing his seat of Richmond Park to the Lib Dems. It’s not a massive surprise that the local face of the ‘Get Brexit Done’ party suffered in a seat which voted 71 per cent Remain – but the government minister, who attempted to run on a pro-environment campaign, will still be smarting this morning.
Dennis Skinner
At long last, the Tories have slayed the ‘Beast of Bolsover’ Dennis Skinner. Skinner had held on seat in Derbyshire since 1970, but his constituency had backed Leave by 70 per cent in 2016, and was particular vulnerable to the Tories’ onslaught on the so-called ‘Red Wall’. Even so, it was quite remarkable to see Skinner lose his seat after so many years in the House of Commons.
Dominic Grieve
Arch-Remainer Dominic Grieve, who was the Tory MP for Beaconsfield for 22 years before Boris Johnson removed the whip from him, lost his seat in the early hours of Friday morning. The former Attorney General, who stood as an independent, managed to rally 16,765 votes in Beaconsfield, while the Conservative candidate received 32,477.
Chris Williamson
Chris Williamson’s career has finally come to a juddering halt. The former Labour MP and close ally of Jeremy Corbyn parted ways with the Labour party in November after he was suspended for playing down the party’s anti-Semitism problem, which he said Labour had been ‘too apologetic’ about. In a letter announcing his intention to stand as an independent in Derby North, Williamson blamed his party for instigating a ‘witch hunt’ against socialists, capitulating to the ‘Jewish Labour movement’, and promised to build a ‘genuinely socialist and anti-imperialist’ movement. That movement has thankfully come to an end before it even started.GGjestemedlem
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The revenge of democracy
Yesterday’s election was a people’s revolt against the Remoaner tyranny.
BRENDAN O'NEILL
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/13/the-revenge-of-democracy/
So now we know. Now we know what happens when you declare war on democracy. Now we know the consequences of demeaning the largest democratic vote in a nation’s history. Now we know what becomes of a political class that sneers at voters, silences their democratic voice, and libels them as racist, xenophobic know-nothings who cannot be trusted with stewardship of the nation. You get punished. You get rebelled against. You get replaced. Last night, in those extraordinary election results, we witnessed the revenge of democracy.
You don’t have to be a fan of Boris Johnson or his withdrawal treaty to appreciate the significance and even brilliance of yesterday’s events. The results are striking, historically so. Labour suffering one of its worst results in decades, the Tories winning a powerful majority which, in the final days of the campaign anyway, not many people were predicting. Most striking of all has been the corrosion, collapse in fact, of Labour’s ‘red wall’ – that historic terrain of red constituencies stretching from North Wales through northern England. Well, it’s not red anymore: brick by brick it has fallen, with vast swathes of people who have voted Labour for decades turning to the Tories this time.
Stockton South, Darlington, Wrexham – all Tory seats. Even saying that sounds strange. Bolsover, held by Dennis Skinner since 1970, now has a 5,000+ Tory majority. Former mining towns that have long loathed the Tories – Bishop Auckland, Sedgefield – have turned blue. Bishop Auckland’s Tory MP – 25-year-old Hull-educated Dehenna Davison – is the first it’s had in its 134-year history. Don Valley is gone, too, despite MP Caroline Flint’s best efforts to warn her party that its betrayal of its working-class, Brexit-backing voters would cost it dear. The wall hasn’t only been breached – it’s been torn down.
The ‘red wall’ collapse is the most significant, telling event in this election because it speaks, clearly and profoundly, to the revolt-like nature of yesterday’s ballot-box rejection of the Remainer elites. These working-class communities were at the sharp end of the elites’ seething contempt for Brexit voters. When you heard liberal-elite EU lovers or the performative radicals of the bourgeois Corbynista movement bemoaning the ‘low-information’, demagogue-swayed sections of society who had apparently been misled into backing Brexit, this is who they were talking about. The good people of Blackpool South, of the Vale of Clwyd, of Workington – all Tory seats this morning. That poisonous contempt was aimed most directly at these people. And now these people have responded. They have returned the contempt that has been heaped so heavily on them these past three-and-a-half years.
The red-wall revolt against Labour feels era-defining. This is working people rejecting that foul old idea that they would vote for a donkey so long as it was wearing a red rosette. This is ordinary people rebelling against the neo-aristocracy of the woke identitarian middle classes who have hijacked the party their forefathers founded. And this is an uprising against anti-democracy. For more than three years the political class has agitated against the largest democratic vote in our history. They have used every legal and parliamentary trick in the book to thwart or delay Brexit. And now the people have passed their judgement on this disgraceful behaviour. Democracy’s payback.
Corbyn's Labour sett fra innsiden.
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Election Aftermath!
denne analysen av labours fall i siste valg virker klar og overbevisende. det er brexit, corbyn, og kanskje viktigst av alt: labour henger i løse lufta uten den gamle (velger og sosiale) base som industrisamfunnet genererte, og er i mangel av en ny.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=HomepageSist redigert:GGjestemedlem
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Siden noen åpenbart ikke leser annet enn The Guardian og NTY.. så får vi ta det derfra da:
Labour has no hope of rebuilding unless it breaks the cold grip of the hard left
Andrew Rawnsley
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...g-unless-it-breaks-cold-grip-of-the-hard-left
After the crushing election defeat, it is not just Jeremy Corbyn who has to go. It must mean the end of Corbynism
For some Labour people, there is one consolation to be found amidst the smoking ruin of the party’s devastating election defeat. Such a cataclysm surely has to mean the termination of the party’s fatal experiment with Corbynism.
Or does it? The Corbynites don’t think so. They show scant contrition for what they have inflicted on Labour and the many millions of people who depend on the party to protect and champion them. Nor are they displaying any willingness to relinquish their control. Quite the reverse. Jeremy Corbyn is squatting on as leader while John McDonnell tries to fix the succession for his protege, Rebecca Long Bailey. The senior apparatchiks of the Corbynite court continue to draw their salaries even as the party plans to sack blameless junior Labour staffers and its defeated MPs roar with rage. If Labour is to have any possibility of becoming a competitor for power at some point in the future, the party will first have to be prised from the cold grip of the hard leftists who have controlled its commanding heights for nearly five years.
Another sign that they will not let go without a fight is their extreme reluctance to take any responsibility for the electoral apocalypse that they engineered. Mr Corbyn displays a typically attractive combination of preening self-righteousness and self-exculpation when he insists that he “won the argument” even after smashing the party down to its lowest level of parliamentary representation since 1935. This is worse than risible. It is also characteristically irresponsible and wilfully destructive. He will have done his final disservice to the party if he succeeds in deceiving Labour members into believing that this defeat wasn’t so bad after all.
Let there be no doubt. Labour has suffered one of the most crushing routs in its history. This fourth consecutive election defeat came at the end of an austerity decade presided over by the Conservatives and one in which the Lib Dems were heavily implicated. The Tories also spent much of that time waging an uncivil war with themselves. This election should have been there for the taking and yet Boris Johnson is smugly enthroned back in power with a majority of 80 while Labour contemplates at least another half-decade in opposition.
Much effort is being spent picking through the rubble of the “red wall” seats in the Midlands, the north of England and Wales where Labour’s vote collapsed. This is understandable because it is sensational that Tory MPs now sit for constituencies that had been Labour since the 1930s in many cases and, in some, Labour for ever before the cataclysm of 12 December. The focus on these seats has distracted from just how terrible this election was for Labour elsewhere. In Scotland, the party is back down to just one lonesome MP. So much for the original Corbynite promise that Labour only had to offer a radical left programme and Scots would swoon into the party’s arms. Because there has been so much other wreckage to goggle at, only a few sharp-eyed commentators have noted how atrociously the party performed in election-swinging seats in middle and southern England, seats that have to be won if the party is ever to see the inside of government again. In Northampton, Nuneaton, Swindon, Watford and too many other places to mention, slim Tory majorities have waxed into much fatter and safer ones.
The Corbynite excuses for their colossal failure have come in thin and fast. Blame the media is the laziest. Yes, a lot of the media were hostile to Labour, but since this has always been the case and always will be, any half-competent leader has to have a plan to deal with it. The worst trashing of the brand was not perpetrated by the Tory press, but by the Corbynites themselves. Carrying on what Ed Miliband stupidly started, they relentlessly vilified the Labour government of 1997 to 2010. It was harder to ask for a vote for Labour when it had nothing good to say about the last time it commanded power.
Another favoured Corbynite alibi is Brexit. It is true that Brexit placed great stress on Labour’s electoral coalition. The test of leadership was to manage those strains successfully. The fractures were instead made more acute because the leader was a furtive Brexiter whose unwillingness to pick a side reinforced the other doubts about his fitness to be prime minister. Labour’s vote fell in Leave seats. It also went down in Remain seats. We should not forget that the Conservatives’ electoral coalition was also stressed by Brexit. Recall that 21 Remainer Tory MPs were purged for rebelling before the election. The Conservatives won because they kept most of their vote together while also taking support off Labour. Millions of Tory Remainers backed Boris Johnson when they might have done something different had Labour been under more appealing and less scary leadership. As much as many of them found Brexit appalling, these critical voters found the idea of a Corbynite government even more repulsive.
The more sophisticated Corbynites argue that the crisis in the party’s heartlands has been gestating for years. There’s something in this, although it doesn’t explain the big anti-Labour swing in many other areas of the country or account for why alienation in the heartlands became so much more severe under Labour’s current management. Tony Blair, the last Labour leader to assemble a winning alliance of working- and middle-class voters, achieved a majority of more than 18,000 in Sedgefield when he won his third election as prime minister in 2005. Corbyn’s Labour has turned Sedgefield blue and installed a Tory MP with a majority of more than 4,000. Nor is there any Corbynite explanation for why Labour’s former voters in the working-class heartlands decided that the answer to their problems was to vote for a Latin-quoting, London-based old Etonian. Both the polling evidence and the reports from Labour candidates tell us that Mr Corbyn was a massive liability. Voters did not trust him with either the economy or security and were baffled and appalled by his associations with extremists and his preference for any repressive dictatorship that called itself leftwing or anti-western. His Kremlin-sympathetic response to the Salisbury poisonings was one of the events that crystallised that distrust, as even some of his disciples now finally acknowledge, a little late in the day.
It is a mistake and a trap to land all the blame on him alone. That is too convenient for the many others who enabled this catastrophe by cheering him on as he led Labour towards the abyss, or were complicit by staying silent when they should have spoken up. Heaping all the culpability on one man will ultimately suit the continuity Corbynites seeking to install one of their own as the next leader. They will say there was nothing wrong with Corbynism except Corbyn. Brilliant experiment – shame about JC. We only have to get ourselves a Corbynite leader “without Jeremy’s unfortunate baggage” and we are all set to win in 2024. This will be their version of the Marxist’s favourite excuse for communism’s multiple failures. There’s nothing wrong with Corbynism; it just hasn’t been tried properly.
So others contesting for the leadership need to be very clear with the party’s members that there was a lot more wrong with Corbynism than its frontman. It was not solely his fault that Labour became so noxious to so many that it simultaneously repelled traditional supporters and swing voters. It was not just the man, it was the far-leftist ideology and the sectarian culture around that man that did it. Corbynism promised a “kinder, gentler” politics, only to make the party hideously nasty in the eyes of anyone who had not imbibed the cult’s flavour of Kool-Aid. Corbynism promised a party answerable to the members only to concentrate all the power in the hands of a tiny cabal of pseudo-revolutionary socialists and fellow travellers. Corbynism fomented a sickness that facilitated the poisonous spread of antisemitism. Corbynism unleashed a factional zealotry that preferred to hunt down internal heretics who deviated from the true faith and brand them as “Tories” rather than try to win converts amongst the electorate. Corbynism preferred to be a glorified protest movement complacently luxuriating in a narcissistic conceit of its own moral superiority rather than do the hard and honest thinking required to secure office. Corbynism produced a fantasy programme that voters found literally incredible.
The election result was a comprehensive rejection not just of Jeremy Corbyn, but the ideology and culture to which he gave his name. Only if Labour confronts and grasps this truth will it have any hope of rebuilding itself as a serious contender for power.
• Andrew Rawnsley is Chief Political Commentator of the ObserverMan behøver ikke være en Brexiter for å skjønne det der. Mange skjønte det for svært lenge siden også. Det som kanskje er mest interessant er strukturene og historikken i Storbritannia som førte et sosialdemokratisk parti som Labour til å velge en såpass "smal" og ytterfløy leder som Corbyn. En av mekanismene som er nevnt er topartisystemet som gjorde at det aldri var noe alternativ for de mer ekstreme å bryte ut og danne sitt eget fløyparti, slik vi har sett i Norge. For alle de som irriterer seg over alle de små tullepartiene i Norge så kan det være noe å reflektere over. Moxness overtok aldri Ap, og Listhaug aldri Høyre. Det får vi takke vår skaper for.
Samtidshistorietime:
Boris Johnson Might Break Up the U.K. That’s a Good Thing.
It’s time to let the fantasy of the “British nation” die.
By David Edgerton
But Brexit and the delusions of the United Kingdom’s grandeur that go with it are the politics of the aged, of those who remember that brief experience of a united, national United Kingdom. The young people of England, like those in the rest of Britain, overwhelmingly supported remaining in the European Union. They also understand we need liberation from the practices of Westminster and Whitehall, not Brussels, and from the self-defeating rage of the old.
Only a few decades ago, a new United Kingdom emerged from the empire. Now, by forcing the breakup of the union, the old — drinking deep the delusions of British nationalism — may make it possible for a new England to emerge from the United Kingdom.
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- 28.09.2016
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Kan du vise til ett eneste sted i hele verden der noen har påstått noe sånt?Da er de på vei ut, noe som enkelte her påstod aldri ville skje, så nå er det bare å vente på at de blir et u-land for det ville jo bli konsekvensene
De veldig mange hevder, er at det ikke ser ut til å ha noen åpenbare fordeler for UK å melde seg ut av EU, mens det finnes en god del ulemper for den generelle befolkningen. Mange mener det er en form av nasjonal selvskading som pågår, og at det har florert med feilinformasjon fra begge sider i debatten.
Men det du påstår her over, tror jeg ingen har hevdet i fullt alvor.
Det er jo en del som har smurt på ganske tykt når det gjelder konsekvensbetraktninger fra ulike aktører rundtomkring, og en del artige skrekkscenarier har jo blitt foreslått, men det betyr jo ikke at man faktisk trodde at det kom til å bli slik.
Vel. Lyttet til et program på BBC om hvor britene skal få maten sin fra. Britisk landbruk sliter med å få tak i nok arbeidere og Johnson ønsker å gjøre det enda vanskeligere for sesongarbeidere fra Øst-Europa, så disse er alt begynt å jobbe i andre EU-land.
Håpet om at briter skulle overta svant kjapt. Vi velfødde som ikke har bodd på andre siden av Muren klarer ikke tempoet. Morsomt avsnitt i programmet om et tv-program som hadde fulgt noen briter som prøvde seg. Og de var i god form.
«Så hva skal vi gjøre? Satse på landbruksroboter og AI?»
«Det kan bli nødvendig.»
En annen hadde en artig kommentar: «Dette vil føre til at lønns- og boforhold for landbruksarbeidere i UK blir langt bedre. De har vært elendige og kun tiltrekkende på fattige fra tidligere kommunistland.»
Storbritannia har 60% selvforsyningsgrad.
Ting blir nok dyrere, folk kommer til å merke det, men det blir nok ingen katastrofe på noe som helst nivå.
Jeg er spent på å se hvordan 2020 blir. For om klønene faktisk klarer å dra i land dette på et akseptabelt vis kan det fort få konsekvenser for resten av EU.
Altså, tenk om det faktisk går strålende?
(nei, jeg ser ikke for meg hvordan de skal få til det, men jeg liker sci-fi)
Mye god mat i UK. Nå skal det forhandles om betingelser i minst 11 måneder og vi kan trygt gå ut ifra at øyriket vil fortsette å dra fordel av billigere arbeidskraft fra EU, til enda bedre betingelser, når forhandlingene er over.GGjestemedlem
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Jaja. Folk får vel smøre matpakke om de skal til London en helg og vil holde sultedøden på armlengs avstand.Kona skal til London på et tredagers seminar om et par uker. Jeg skal tipse henne om rådet ditt. Hva anbefaler du av pålegg som kan importeres nå når de står utenfor EU og må få på plass egne reguleringer for dette?
Aftenposten: USA vil ha lettere tilgang til det britiske markedet for sine landbruksprodukter, men britene er skeptiske fordi de har ulike matregelverk.
I leserbrevspalten i britiske The Times har myndighetspersoner fra de to landene havnet i krangel om klorvasking av kyllinger. En tidligere leder av britenes mattilsyn slaktet forrige uke USAs praksis, som han mener er helsefarlig. Søndag slo USAs ambassadør, Robert Wood Johnson, tilbake. «Millioner av briter besøker USA hvert år, og jeg vil vedde på at de fleste spiser kylling», skriver ambassadøren, som mener slike produkter «absolutt må være med» i en fremtidig handelsavtale mellom USA og Storbritannia.
Problemet for britene er at om de gir slike innrømmelser til USA, kan det i neste omgang skape krøll for handelsavtaler med EU-landene.Sist redigert:Vil britene egentlig ut av EU:
https://www.dagsavisen.no/nyheter/verden/kun-4-av-73-malinger-viser-brexit-flertall-1.1655625
^Hysj med deg. Folkets vilje har talt!GGjestemedlem
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Det er ikke egentlig smart for et europeisk land å ikke være EU-medlem. Jeg tror britene gjorde noe dumt, men dog ikke noe katastrofalt. Norge ville også vært tjent med å være medlem, men siden vi har et såpass tett og godt samarbeid gjennom EØS så er det ingen krise heller.
Det var dog en seier for demokratiet at valgresultatet til slutt ble respektert og at landet fra i morgen av ikke lenger en en del av EU siden det var dette som ble resultatet av folkeavstemningen. EU medlemskap gir mange fordeler, men respekten for demokratiet og valgresultater er tross alt viktigere på sikt, for mister man viljen til å respektere dem fordi man ikke likte resultatet så har man allerede passert et 'point of no return' og fjerner man denne grunnsteinen for å lefle med alternative ideologier så har man forvillet seg ut på en blindvei.
Men britene får de nå prøve dette noen år, og om en generasjon eller så får man vel ta en ny runde... og kanskje de da heller vil tilbake... det vil tiden vise for dem som lever så lenge. I mellomtiden får de heller prøve å utnytte de fordelene det er å ikke være bundet av EU-regler og de kan prøve å få i stand handelsavtaler med andre land og andre deler av verden. Mye vil nok bero på hva slags avtale de klarer å få til med USA som tross alt er verdens største økonomi. (USAs økonomi er faktisk større enn hele EU til sammen).
Jeg håper og at Norge får til et bra samarbeid med UK også utenfor EU, og jeg skulle veldig gjerne sett økt handel med dem.
Så lykke til! Et lite tilbakeskritt for forstanden men et betryggende ja til respekten for demokratiet.
Og mens vi er farten, la oss slutte stille spørsmål om hvorvidt et valg kvalifiserer som demokratisk i henhold internasjonale standarder man har forpliktet seg til. Spiller ingen rolle. Folket har talt. Om så med 120 prosent av alle avlagte stemmer.
La oss ikke affisere av hvordan en folkeavstemming blir holdt, inklusive fravær av et informert valg om deres stemmes konsekvenser. Det er demokratisk. Respekt for folkets vilje. Å la det samme folk få muligheten til et informert valg før det har gått minst en generasjon, og ditto har gått i penalet for et valg de selv ikke vil erfare konsekvensene av, er udemokratisk.
Vil anbefale at du bruker litt tid på å lese deg opp på hva som er forstått som demokratiske standarder i vår tid. Med all takk til de gamle grekere og deres torg, vi har heldigvis kommet litt videre siden den tid.GGjestemedlem
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Ja, jo..
Hvor mange år er det siden 1994?
Skal vi se oss selv i speilet først?
(ok en generasjon er regnet som 30 år og vi er bare inne i det 26. .. men nær nok til at du kanskje ser ironien).
.. og jeg tror nok det går 4 til før vi får en ny sjanse.. så .. empiri om ikke annet...GGjestemedlem
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Herlig.
Nigel Farage's dramatic final speech at the European Parliament ahead of the Brexit vote
̈ˆ
fra 2.25…
… we don't need these institutions and all of this power …
slik blir det når en tar sine idealer fra en annen plass. mitt rike er ikke av denne verden; vi er et fellesskap forent i kjærlighet. institusjoner og makt tilhører mennesket etter at det spiste av kunnskapens tre. nesten som å høre luther mot kirka…
Det er bare å lene seg tilbake og avvente Abendlandets selvdestruksjon. Vi er på god vei og det gjelder ikke kun UK.
GGjestemedlem
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Ja Roma og Brussels har endel til felles i så måte. Men alt i alt så heller jeg nå til til at det var utbryterlandene som i alle fall på sikt skikket seg best. De land med en alt for dominerende kirkemakt er jo stort sett katolske.GGjestemedlem
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Brexit DAY!
GGjestemedlem
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A NEW collectable 50p coin is being specially minted for Brits who want to commemorate leaving the European Union.
But what is the 50p Brexit coin and where can I buy one?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/10822322/brexit-50p-coin-buy/Ikke for å mobbe, Deph men jeg finner din EU entusiasme noe pussig tatt i betraktning din motstand mot muslimistisk innvandring.
Det er jo Merkel og EU som dytter på for å få Europa inn i Kalifatet!
( Dette er en spissformulering kun myntet på Deph og ikke ment som grunnlag for en langvarig krangel med dere andre! )GGjestemedlem
Gjest
Merkel kommer vel på annenplass når det kommer til tyskere for har forårsaket elendighet i Europa. EUs massive import av klienter fra den tredje verden er godt nok et feiltrinn, men det er gode krefter i Europa som ikke lenger vil være med på denne galskapen. Italia, Ungarn, Østerrike m.fl. har sagt i fra at de ikke er klar for åpen innvandring av opportunister.
Men EU handler om så mye mer, og det er viktige ting landene må samarbeide om. Handel med varer og tjenester er jo det viktigste, og det er også andre områder som sikkerhet, forsvar, klimapolitikk, forbrukerrettigheter, medisin, forskning og utnyttelse av naturressurser for å nevne noen.
Et hvert land i Europa bør tilstrebe en så nær tilknytning til de andre landene som mulig. det betyr ikke at alt EU vedtar er av det gode, men at fordelene med medlemskap langt overveier ulempene.
Men respekten for demokratiet teller mest, for mister man den er vil tilbake til fascisme, sosialisme og det som verre er. Vi må respektere UKs utmeldelse akkurat som vi måtte respektere den norske folkeavstemningen i 1994. Jeg stemte ja til EU den gangen og jeg vil nok gjøre det ved neste korsvei også. Men blir det nei engang til, så vil jeg respektere det om jeg er aldri så uenig. Dette ser ut til å være en litt gammelmodig tankegang for mange av dagens aktivister på ymse områder har ikke den samme respekten for slikt, for de "vet" jo at det er de som har rett da overstyrer det alt annet, enten det er klimafanatikere, blodrøde identitetspolitikere eller klassiske kommunister. -
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