Please advise - Electrocompaniet matching speakers

[vadik]

Hello,

I'm sorry I write in English at Norwegian forum. I'm there because I think many people have (had) Electrocompaniet setup here. I have heard ECI-5 + ECC-1 last month. I was amazed with the sound. It's sound I'm looked for a long time. I only tried it with my small bookshelf speakers Usher S-520 II, but it's was enough to meet the sound character of Electrocompaniet. So, now I have two question for you EC knowing guys.

1. Is the big different in sound between integrated amplifier ECI-5 and ECI-4.7 + AW-120? Is it worth to spent a twice for ECI-4.7 + AW-120? CD player will be ECC-1 or ECM-1.

2. What bookshelf speakers better matching to EC? I have few tips: Usher BE-718 or second hand Wilson Bensch Arc. The living room is about 20m2. The speakers will be near to the wall, so I think the types with rear bassreflex is not a good choice (isn't it?). I'm listening various music, but mainly vocal jazz, blues, sometimes rock like AC/DC and folk.

I will be happy for any suggestion and will try to listen the EC setup with most of your recommended speakers in available studios in my country. I live in Czech Republic.

You can write in Norwegian. Not a problem to translate with Google translator.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Ketil]

For your first question; I think the pre-amplifier section of the EC integrateds are mostly the same as the pre-amp 4.7. With a separate pre-amp you get benefits like separate power supply and no interference from the power amp section. On the other hand you will not need a high quality signal cable between the pre and power with an integrated. You also have more flexibility with a pre-power combo in that you can change either on later stage as you want to upgrade.

I myself own a EC-4.7 mk.II and while both the CD player and power amp has been upgraded lately, the pre has stayed and do not seem to be a bottleneck to the system. So this is a high quality pre and this is reflected in the sound of the ECI-5. I don't think there will be dramatic differences in sound quality between the two alternatives you mention, I think it more comes down to what you want with your system in the future.

I guess you are aware that there are two different versions of the AW-120 power amp. You have the old AW-120 and the new AW 2*120-M. The new AW 2*120-M can be used in a balanced bridge configuration with the purchase of a second AW 2*120-M. You can then use them in a home theater set-up where the two AW 2*120-M runs both front and surround channels in home theater mode and only the front speakers bridged in two channel mode.

If this is not interesting to you and you mainly want a two channel hifi setup without the possiblity to upgrade to either a new pre or power in the foreseeable future, I would think the ECC-1 and ECI-5 combo would be the best for you.

One thing that I myself think is important is that you get a high quality signal cable between the cd and amplifier. As both the cd player ECC-1 and amp ECI-5 are balanced this would have to be a balanced XLR cable. Just now you get 50% discount on Wireworld signalcables at thecableco.com Go to this link for the Gold Eclipse 5.

Good Luck !

 

[Rojoh]

Perhaps one standmount-model from Xavian would suit your preferences? Aren't Xavian manufactured in your country? I used the ECI-3 together with an Arcam cd-player and Xavian Accorda floorstanding loudspeakers. I liked the sound. Slightly on the warm and forgiving side.

From what I've been told, the ECI-5 has got a bit more control and grip on the drivers. It's also possible that a standmount would slightly reduce the "romantic" warmth compared with the Accordas that I used, and give a fairly neutral and well-balanced tonality. My experience with Xavian is only positive. Not analytical and edgy, but still fairly transparent and well behaved - much of the same characteristics I'd put on Electrocompaniet.

Besides Xavian, B&Ws 805 Nautilus could also be an interesting candidate.

Regards Johan

 

[vadik]

to Rojoh:

Thanks Johan for your feedback!
Yes, Xavian produces in Czech Republic, even in the same town where I'm living. It's about 1km near from my office I have personally met Mr. Barletta.
I have only heard two Xavian models: bookshelf XN-125 Evoluzione and standmount Giulietta with BlueNote Italian equipment.
It's sond fairly, warm and at the same time very detailed with fantastic spaciousness, especially bookshelf model. Standmount model has more expressive bass, but not as good spaciousness as bookshelf model. Bookshelf model simply lose from the room and you hear only music from the space. Very nice, but... When I heard my favorite rock AC/DC, I missed the speed, fierce sound with proper drive that rock music has to be sound. Simply I like sound of Usher S-520 II more than XN-125 but lack a spaciousness of the XN-125.
For that reasons I preliminary reject Xavian from my list of hot candidates. My friend bought the higher model of Xavian bookshelf loudspeakers - XN-250. I plan to visit him soon and I will maybe take an another stand... Will see...

My view of thing is that Electrocompaniet is warm and fairly enought to purchase the speakers with the same character. Otherwise it can take effect of sloth.
I think the speakers matching EC have to be fast, dynamic, detailed, open with good space even little bit shiny but not a sterile.
That's why I have Usher BE-718 and Wilson Benesch on my list. Usher doesn't fulfil all of above mentioned characteristics, but near to them and good enough for the price. I will certainly try them with EC.
Wilson Benesch is from another price range, but I loved them when heard with combination of ECM-1 + Music First Audio Copper pre-amp + Audia power-amp. It was near to the music nirvana for me but will maybe tiring after a while at this combination. But EC can assure this. EC + WB can be a perfect combination. What do you think guys? Is anybody has heard this combination? I will certainly try this combination.

Any other candidates near to my demands?

P.S. Dynaudio yet crossed my mind, but too much sterile for me. I don't hear it yet with EC however...

 

[vadik]

to Ketil:

Thank you for your feedback too!

I will probably choose ECI-5 or ECI-3 for the beginning (according to sensitivity of the loudspeakers I will decide to buy). In the long future I can upgrade the system with the power-amp and use the ECI as a pre-amp for bi-amping.

Does anybody knows if there is a big different between ECC-1 and ECM-1?
I'm also interesting about the diferents in sound betwen EC-4.7 MKI and MKII and AW-120 old and new models.

I think I have good signal cable. Czech producer Krautwire, model Guru, it's price is 250 EUR. It has RCA Neutrik terminals. So, I will only swap the terminals (probably stay at Neutrik). I'm also thinking about good silver interconnect. HGA (Home Grown Audio) from USA is a perfect for a price.
Another chapter is a speaker cables. It will need an upgrade too. Supra PLY is good, but not good enought of EC. Rapport Audio used by Usher made in USA doesn't sound bad. HGA is also a candidate. Will see...

P.S. I don't propose to build surround system. Real good stereo is my targed.

 

[vadik]

One more thing I would like to know. What is the different between old ECI-4 and new ECI-5. Is ECI-4 able to drive 86dB speakers?

 

[Ulf-B]

My daughter has an ECI-4 which has been upgraded to ECI-5-specifications - and the difference is audible. The ECI-5-sound is tighter. Like it has more slam - yet not losing the nice EC-sound. Note that the ECI-5 has the same power rating - it just sounds more powerful.

86dB speakers?? I haven't tried that - neither has my daughter - but yes, I don't think you would run into any serious problems. But ECI-4 tends to "soften" when it's stressed. It would probably be okay for reasonable listening levels - but of course: if you want to make the furniture jump around, you should try something more powerful.

 

[vadik]

to Ulf-B:

Thank you! I meant whether ECI-4 has enought power to drvive 86dB sensitive speakers at low volume but with good dynamic. The amplifier should get the speakers under control and any volume. My currect amplifier TEAC A-BX10 (2x100W 8ohm) need to turn the volume knob to the right to utilize all potential of my small but low sensitive Ushers S-520. Then these speakers sounds like much much more expensive speakers.

 

[Retep]

Hi Vadik

I`ve had the eci-4 before, used it om different speakers. One of the brands that stood out, we like the same music, was Audiovector. It`s an easy load for the amp and sounds good on vocal music. Also the old B&W 602s3 was a good match. Today a have Triangle speakers (link: http://www.triangle-fr.com/WD100AWP/WD100Awp.exe/CONNECT/TRIANGLE) and my music taste is the same, but now I like the sound to be warmer than before. I`ve fallen completely for these speakers that Triangle make. Espesially the Gênese series and the esprit ex series. If you have a chanse, go and listen to them.

I Have the Quartet speakers, but should have bought the Trio due to the size of my room. Other speaker brands that I`ve tried with Electrocompaniet amps:
Spendor.
System Audio
Focal ( JmLab )

Good luck in your hunt for sound.

Regards Peter

 

[Ulf-B]

I agree - Audiovector is a good match for ECI-4.

My brother has an ECI-4, too, by the way - in his hifi no. 2 - and his choice of speakers is Audiovector M3 Signature. But neither my brother or I are overly impressed by the low volume dynamics of ECI-4 - just to revert to vadik's recent question. It doesn't wake you up - not like a Krell or Bryston would do. But then that is a different league altogether, isn't it? My brother has added a sub to his system - Audiovector M Sub - and that pretty much compensates for the low level dynamics of ECI-4. Expensive solution, though. Cheaper to upgrade the ECI-4 or to buy an ECI-5.

 

[Retep]

True. The Eci-4 needs to have the nob turned up a bit before the fluent sound comes. So for low music at night time you will not be inpressed, but for listening at moderate levels, the amp will awake and the true sound of the Ec vill come to life. It`s very good for jazz and easy muisc..

I`m thinking of going back to the roots myself and buy Electrocompaniet again. The brand that took me into this crazy hobby!

 

[Ketil]

Does anybody knows if there is a big different between ECC-1 and ECM-1?
I'm also interesting about the diferents in sound betwen EC-4.7 MKI and MKII and AW-120 old and new models.

The main difference between the ECC-1 and the EMC-1 is the transport. EMC-1 is famous for it's vibration cancelling cd transport, whereas the ECC-1 uses a more standard transport. As the EMC-1 is nearly double the price I doubt if it's worth the extra cost. ECC-1 is also a newer design and I've heard some say that they preferred the cheaper player.

There's not a huge difference between the EC4.7 mkI and mkII, but I would definitely go for the mkII version. If you can get a mkI version secondhand you can send it in to Electrocompaniet for upgrade to mkII for about 200 US$.

The difference between the old AW-120 and the new AW 2*120-M is probably bigger. AW 2*120-M is a new design made after Electrocompaniet was taken over by new owners. Two AW 2*120M can very easily the bridged by a push of a button. Then you would in reality have a pair of AW400 (NADA), as the AW400 is built on AW 2*120-M. And many prefer AW400 over NEMO which is the EC premium amp.

 

[vadik]

Triangle : the only model that interested me was their flagship - Triangle Magellan Grand Concert SW2 (with Czech made integrated amplifier Sroll at the price of about 15.000 EUR!). All other models I have heard (with Marantz only) keep me uninvolved. Don't know if it can sound in quite a different way with EC.

Audiovector : I don't remember the sound characteristic of the Audiovector already. I only remember it played with NAD. That's all. Not sure if the Czech distributor still imports this brand. Will check it out.

Thank you guys for your efforts! I didn't expect I will receive many answers. I'm a pleasantly surprised

 

[vadik]

to Ketil:

The Czech distributor of Electrocompaniet still offers AW-120 DMB that is little bit cheaper then AW-2x120. I think it's also new model of AW-120 made after Electrocompaniet was taken over by new owners. Do you think old AW-120 can be also upgraded to the new AW-120 DMB as well as ECI-4 to the ECI-5?

 

[Ketil]

to Ketil:

The Czech distributor of Electrocompaniet still offers AW-120 DMB that is little bit cheaper then AW-2x120. I think it's also new model of AW-120 made after Electrocompaniet was taken over by new owners. Do you think old AW-120 can be also upgraded to the new AW-120 DMB as well as ECI-4 to the ECI-5?

It's possible that the old AW-120 was continued after the takeover. At this time I can't se it listed on their homepage so I guess it's discontinued. I don't think it would be possible to upgrade from an old AW-120 to the new AW 2*120-M due to the new design. An AW 2*120-M has in practice two identical monoamplifiers inside it. Therefore it's very easy to bridge it and quadruple it's power. It's done just with the push of a button.