|
Chavez er ute etter å skåre billege poeng. Han greidde å få litt mediamerksemd då han skulda amerikanarane for å gjere dekkoperert invasjon på Haiti no i veka...
A
AK27
Gjest
Det ville ikke vært første gang, langt i fra.Audiophile-Arve skrev:
Det er sikkert veldig lett å finne noen spissformuleringer fra Chavez som ikke henger helt på greip. I stedet for små velregisserte/innøvde klipp holder Chavez ukentlig improviserte taler for folket som varer i timesvis, det er en annen politisk kultur. De som har hørt mannen snakke forstår lett at om det er en ting han ikke er, så er det en dumrian.Slubbert skrev:
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aló_Presidente)
G
Gjestemedlem
Gjest
Han får støtte fra fransk hold:Audiophile-Arve skrev:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/01/19/nyheter/utenriks/haiti/jordskjelv/naturkatastrofer/9996345/
Amerikanerne nekter fly som med nødhjelp å lande på flyplassen. De vil ha full kontroll, og heller bruke kapasiteten til troppetransport og militære forsyninger.
A
AK27
Gjest
Og det ser ut til at historien gjentar seg.Gjestemedlem skrev:
- Ble medlem
- 01.08.2003
- Innlegg
- 2.306
- Antall liker
- 2
Chavez er fullstendig gal IMO. 2 i panna på ham vil gjøre det landet mye bedre...
Han har hatt mange slager-uttalelser i det siste...jeez...
Han har hatt mange slager-uttalelser i det siste...jeez...
A
AK27
Gjest
Nivået på forumets chavezdebatter er enda dårligere enn komersiell presses dekning av den bolivarske revolusjon. Er langt fra enig i all politikk fra den kanten. Men et ønske om å henrette en av kontinentets mest populære presidenter som har vunnet folkeavstemning etter folkeavstemning er da noe søkt.
Prøv å holde minimum et par 5-timer lange improviserte taler hver uke om stadig nye tema og se hvor mange spissformuleringer ekstremt fiendtligstilt venezuelansk og amerikansk presse klarer å ta ut av kontekst for å fremstille deg som en idiot, og se hvor mange falsum som også blir tatt inn i den norske pressen. Legg til at verdens største imperiemakt allerede har organisert et statskupp mot deg og at du sitter på kanskje verdens største oljeressurser.
Her er en god kilde for informasjon om desinformasjonen rundt Venezuela: http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/
Sjekk gjerne også ut Eva Golingers arbeider.
Columbia er med klar margin kontinentets største røverstat, hvorfor har vi ingen oppildnede diskusjoner rundt Columbias mange brudd på menneskerettighetene.
Prøv å holde minimum et par 5-timer lange improviserte taler hver uke om stadig nye tema og se hvor mange spissformuleringer ekstremt fiendtligstilt venezuelansk og amerikansk presse klarer å ta ut av kontekst for å fremstille deg som en idiot, og se hvor mange falsum som også blir tatt inn i den norske pressen. Legg til at verdens største imperiemakt allerede har organisert et statskupp mot deg og at du sitter på kanskje verdens største oljeressurser.
Her er en god kilde for informasjon om desinformasjonen rundt Venezuela: http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/
Sjekk gjerne også ut Eva Golingers arbeider.
Columbia er med klar margin kontinentets største røverstat, hvorfor har vi ingen oppildnede diskusjoner rundt Columbias mange brudd på menneskerettighetene.
S
Slubbert
Gjest
En ekstremradikal side med endeløs Chávez-rævslikking gjør ikke skillet mellom informasjon og desinformasjon særlig tydelig.AK27 skrev:
http://vcrisis.com/?content=letters/200503042206
Hvorfor krangler alle om Israel og ingen om feks Usbekistan og regimet til Karimov ("Slakteren fra Andijan")? I know and you know; ideologi, ideologi, ideologi.
G
Gjestemedlem
Gjest
Kanskje heller fordi de fleste ikke aner noen som helst om landet, eller vet hvem Karimov er.. eller engang har hørt ordet Andijan før?Slubbert skrev:
Spør du tilfeldige mennesker om å gi deg ti faktaopplysninger om Usbekistan (hva som helst) så tror jeg de aller fleste vil melde pass før de er kommet til 3-4 en gang. Med en slik bakgrunn blir det vel mye forlagt at folk skal mene noe som helst om den politiske situasjonen i landet og ganske skivebom å skylde på ideolog for den manglende debattviljen.
Isreael derimot har alle faktorer som gjør det interessant å diskutere. Det er et land som norske barn blir fortalt om fra barneskolen av, pent blandet med religiøs propaganda. Så har vi krigen, jødeforfølgelsene og opprettelse av staten, vi har påfølgende kriger, terrorisme fra alle hold, ressurskamp, religionskamp, folkeforflytninger, stormaktsplitikk, propagandakriger, atomvåpen etc. etc.
S
Slubbert
Gjest
Og "de fleste" vet ikke filla om konflikten i Columbia heller. Folk kjenner til det som er i fokus og fokus er ideologisk betinget, alle medieprofilerte konflikter har en ideologisk undertone med paralleller til ideologiske motsetningsforhold i lokal politikk.Gjestemedlem skrev:
Y
ymir
Gjest
Det er slik USA alltid har handlet.LydMekk skrev:
Ja til frie demokratiske valg.........så lenge de passer oss.Liker vi ikke det valget folket har gjort så avrett skiten.(Chile)
Jeg viste dette til en kolumbiansk kollega av meg og ble belønnet med vantro hoderysting og øyerulling samt en personkarakteristikk som jeg ikke kan gjengi uten å bryte Hifisentralens regel nr.1, men jeg kan si så mye som at hun ønsket vår venn AK et langvarig ferieopphold hos FARC. ;DAK27 skrev:
Her var det noko vi ikkje hadde oversikt over, men likevel mange meiningar om....trur eg held kjeft framover ei stund...
Y
ymir
Gjest
Som Hoover? Hvem husker Joe Hill,jo,musikalske idioter?, som Joan Baez og Bob Dylan.Depotering av hundrevis av Amerikanske statsborgere som bl.a. Emma Goldmann?Med en liste av forbudt literatur og, lang som et vondt år.Kongressfruenes forsøk på å stoppe enkelte former for musikk?BBking skrev:
Alt i landet som elsker frihet til å tro,utøve kunst og tenke fritt.
- Ble medlem
- 19.07.2006
- Innlegg
- 1.876
- Antall liker
- 9
Dette er ikke helt topic, men siden navnet dukket opp her er jeg forpliktet til å skyte det inn. Rått er det i høyeste grad og det beviser at rock'n roll er en følelse og ikke en sjanger innen musikken. Fra wikipedia om Joe Hill:
Hill was executed by firing squad on November 19, 1915, and his last word was "Fire!" Just prior to his execution, he had written to Bill Haywood, an IWW leader, saying, "Goodbye Bill. I die like a true blue rebel. Don't waste any time in mourning. Organize... Could you arrange to have my body hauled to the state line to be buried? I don't want to be found dead in Utah.
His will, which was eventually set to music by Ethel Raim
My will is easy to decide
For there is nothing to divide
My kin don't need to fuss and moan
"Moss does not cling to a rolling stone."
My body? - Oh. - If I could choose
I would to ashes it reduce
And let the merry breezes blow
My dust to where some flowers grow
Perhaps some fading flower then
Would come to life and bloom again
This is my Last and final Will
Good Luck to All of you
Joe Hill
Hill was executed by firing squad on November 19, 1915, and his last word was "Fire!" Just prior to his execution, he had written to Bill Haywood, an IWW leader, saying, "Goodbye Bill. I die like a true blue rebel. Don't waste any time in mourning. Organize... Could you arrange to have my body hauled to the state line to be buried? I don't want to be found dead in Utah.
His will, which was eventually set to music by Ethel Raim
My will is easy to decide
For there is nothing to divide
My kin don't need to fuss and moan
"Moss does not cling to a rolling stone."
My body? - Oh. - If I could choose
I would to ashes it reduce
And let the merry breezes blow
My dust to where some flowers grow
Perhaps some fading flower then
Would come to life and bloom again
This is my Last and final Will
Good Luck to All of you
Joe Hill
A
AK27
Gjest
Farcgeriljaen er overeksponert i vestlig presse. Paramilitære styrker, ofte i sammarbeid med staten (uriberegjeringen) står bak noe i nærheten av 8 av 10 forsvinninger i staten Columbia. Columbia er også landet i hemisfæren hvor det er farligst å være fagorganisert. Terroren og mordene mot fagorganiserte er ekstrem, arbeidernes rettigheter er i nærheten av ikke eksisterende, og barnearbeid er utbredt. Men en skal være forsiktig med å kritisere en alliert, spesielt om denne har gitt fra seg alle rettigheter for å bli en amerikansk militærbase for krigføring i Latin-Amerika. Spesielt om dette landet er en nabostat til et av landene i verden som er rikest på olje og styres av en populær president som er kritisk til USA.
De fleste politiske flyktninger fra Columbia flykter fra paramilitære styrker finansiert av store landeiere av og til i ledtog med staten. De færreste av dem havner i Norge. Venezuela tar dem derimot imot mengder.
Phil Ochs, Joe Hill lyrics
Joe Hill come over from Sweden shores
Looking for some work to do
And the Statue of Liberty waved him by
As Joe come a sailing through.
Oh his clothes were coarse and his hopes were high
As he headed for the promised land
And it took a few weeks on the out-of-work streets
Before he began to understand
Before he began to understand
And Joe got hired by a bowery bar
sweeping up the saloon
As his rag would sail over the baroom rail
Sounded like he whistled on a tune
You could almost hear him whistling on a tune
And Joe rolled on from job to job
From the docks to the railroad line
And no matter how hungry the hand that wrote
In his letters he was always doing fine
In his letters he was always doing fine
Oh, the years went by like the sun goin' down
slowly turn the page
And when Joe looked back at the sweat upon his tracks
He had nothing to show but his age
He had nothing to show but his age
So he headed out for the California shore
There things were just as bad
So he joined the industrial workers of the world
'Cause, The union was the only friend he had
'Cause, The union was the only friend he had
Now the strikes were bloody and the strikes were black
as hard as they were long
In the dark of night Joe would stay awake and write
In the morning he would raise them with a song
In the morning he would raise them with a song
And he wrote his words to the tunes of the day
To be passed along the union vine
And the strikes were led and the songs were spread
And Joe Hill was always on the line
Yes Joe Hill was always on the line
Now in Salt Lake City a murder was made
There was hardly a clue to find
Oh, the proof was poor, but the sheriff was sure
Joe was the killer of the crime
That Joe was the killer of the crime
Joe raised his hands but they shot him down
he had nothing but guilt to give
It's a doctor I need and they left him to bleed
He made it 'cause he had the will to live
Yes, He made it 'cause he had the will to live
Then the trial was held in a building of wood
And there the killer would be named
And the days weighed more than the cold copper ore
Cause he feared that he was being framed
Cause he found out that he was being framed
Oh, strange are the ways of western law
Strange are the ways of fate
For the government crawled to the mine owner's call
That the judge was appointed by the state
Yes, The judge was appointed by the state
Oh, Utah justice can be had
But not for a union man
And Joe was warned by summer early morn
That there'd be one less singer in the land
There'd be one less singer in the land
Now William Spry was Governor Spry
And a life was his to hold
On the last appeal, fell a governor's tear
May the lord have mercy on your soul
May the lord have mercy on your soul
Even President Wilson held up the day
But even he would fail
For nobody heard the soul searching words
Of the soul in the Salt Lake City jail
Of the soul in the Salt Lake City jail
For 36 years he lived out his days
And he more than played his part
For his songs that he made, he was carefully paid
With a rifle bullet buried in his heart
With a rifle bullet buried in his heart
Yes, they lined Joe Hill up against the wall
Blindfold over his eyes
It's the life of a rebel that he chose to live
It's the death of a rebel that he died
It's the death of a rebel that he died
Now some say Joe was guilty as charged
And some say he wasn't even there
And I guess nobody will ever know
'Cause the court records all disappeared
'Cause the court records all disappeared
Say wherever you go in this fair land
In every union hall
In the dusty dark these words are marked
In between all the cracks upon the wall
In between all the cracks upon the wall
It's the very last line that Joe Will wrote
When he knew that his days were through
Boys, this is my last and final will
Good luck to all of you
Good luck to all of you
Joan Baez : Ballad of Sacco & Vanzetti pt. 1 Lyrics
Give to me your tired and your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me."
Blessed are the persecuted
And blessed are the pure in heart
Blessed are the merciful
And blessed are the ones who mourn
The step is hard that tears away the roots
And says goodbye to friends and family
[ Find more Lyrics on http://mp3lyrics.org/9Da ]
The fathers and the mothers weep
The children cannot comprehend
But when there is a promised land
The brave will go and others follow
The beauty of the human spirit
Is the will to try our dreams
And so the masses teemed across the ocean
To a land of peace and hope
But no one heard a voice or saw a light
As they were tumbled onto shore
And none was welcomed by the echo of the phrase
"I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Blessed are the persecuted
And blessed are the pure in heart
Blessed are the merciful
And blessed are the ones who mourn
Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Pt. 2 Lyrics
Father, yes, I am a prisoner
Fear not to relay my crime
The crime is loving the forsaken
Only silence is shame
And now I'll tell you what's against us
An art that's lived for centuries
Go through the years and you will find
What's blackened all of history
Against us is the law
With its immensity of strength and power
Against us is the law!
Police know how to make a man
A guilty or an innocent
Against us is the power of police!
The shameless lies that men have told
Will ever more be paid in gold
Against us is the power of the gold!
Against us is racial hatred
And the simple fact that we are poor
My father dear, I am a prisoner
Don't be ashamed to tell my crime
The crime of love and brotherhood
And only silence is shame
With me I have my love, my innocence,
The workers, and the poor
For all of this I'm safe and strong
And hope is mine
Rebellion, revolution don't need dollars
They need this instead
Imagination, suffering, light and love
And care for every human being
You never steal, you never kill
You are a part of strength and life
The revolution goes from man to man
And heart to heart
And I sense when I look at the stars
That we are children of life
Death is small
Against All Authority, Haymarket Square
No one's gonna hold them down today
They're ready to fight for their rights
On May 3rd, 1886
Chicago burned with the fire they lit
The workers were on strike cause money's tight
The pigs were out and looking for a fight
They opened fire into the crowd
A worker was hit and he went down
No one's gonna hold them down
No! They're gonna burn this fuckin' town
August spies denounced capitalism
But he urged no violence
He was addressing a crowd of workers
The pigs ordered him silenced
A bomb was thrown and the silence wailed
A pig laid dead and 8 were jailed
That day the system failed
You know it never fails
If you think you can crush these ideas
That are gaining ground more each day
If death is the penalty for proclaiming truth
Then I'll proudly and defiantly pay
Four men were sentenced to death
To set an example to all the rest
Who would dare to stand and protest
The injustices we all detest
Billy Bragg I Dreamed I Saw Phil Ochs Last Night lyrics
I dreamed I saw Phil Ochs last night
Alive as you and me
Says I to Phil You're ten years dead
I never died says he
I never died says he
The music business killed you Phil
They ignored the things you said
And cast you out when fashions changed
Says Phil But I ain't dead
Says Phil But I ain't dead
The FBI harassed you Phil
They smeared you with their lies
Says he But they could never kill
What they could not compromise
I never compromised
Though fashion's changed and critics sneered
The songs that I have sung
Are just as true tonight as then
The struggle carries on
The struggle carries on
With the song of freedom rings out loud
From valleys and from hills
Where people stand up for their rights
Phil Ochs is with us still
Phil Ochs inspires us still
De fleste politiske flyktninger fra Columbia flykter fra paramilitære styrker finansiert av store landeiere av og til i ledtog med staten. De færreste av dem havner i Norge. Venezuela tar dem derimot imot mengder.
(Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_justification)
Phil Ochs, Joe Hill lyrics
Joe Hill come over from Sweden shores
Looking for some work to do
And the Statue of Liberty waved him by
As Joe come a sailing through.
Oh his clothes were coarse and his hopes were high
As he headed for the promised land
And it took a few weeks on the out-of-work streets
Before he began to understand
Before he began to understand
And Joe got hired by a bowery bar
sweeping up the saloon
As his rag would sail over the baroom rail
Sounded like he whistled on a tune
You could almost hear him whistling on a tune
And Joe rolled on from job to job
From the docks to the railroad line
And no matter how hungry the hand that wrote
In his letters he was always doing fine
In his letters he was always doing fine
Oh, the years went by like the sun goin' down
slowly turn the page
And when Joe looked back at the sweat upon his tracks
He had nothing to show but his age
He had nothing to show but his age
So he headed out for the California shore
There things were just as bad
So he joined the industrial workers of the world
'Cause, The union was the only friend he had
'Cause, The union was the only friend he had
Now the strikes were bloody and the strikes were black
as hard as they were long
In the dark of night Joe would stay awake and write
In the morning he would raise them with a song
In the morning he would raise them with a song
And he wrote his words to the tunes of the day
To be passed along the union vine
And the strikes were led and the songs were spread
And Joe Hill was always on the line
Yes Joe Hill was always on the line
Now in Salt Lake City a murder was made
There was hardly a clue to find
Oh, the proof was poor, but the sheriff was sure
Joe was the killer of the crime
That Joe was the killer of the crime
Joe raised his hands but they shot him down
he had nothing but guilt to give
It's a doctor I need and they left him to bleed
He made it 'cause he had the will to live
Yes, He made it 'cause he had the will to live
Then the trial was held in a building of wood
And there the killer would be named
And the days weighed more than the cold copper ore
Cause he feared that he was being framed
Cause he found out that he was being framed
Oh, strange are the ways of western law
Strange are the ways of fate
For the government crawled to the mine owner's call
That the judge was appointed by the state
Yes, The judge was appointed by the state
Oh, Utah justice can be had
But not for a union man
And Joe was warned by summer early morn
That there'd be one less singer in the land
There'd be one less singer in the land
Now William Spry was Governor Spry
And a life was his to hold
On the last appeal, fell a governor's tear
May the lord have mercy on your soul
May the lord have mercy on your soul
Even President Wilson held up the day
But even he would fail
For nobody heard the soul searching words
Of the soul in the Salt Lake City jail
Of the soul in the Salt Lake City jail
For 36 years he lived out his days
And he more than played his part
For his songs that he made, he was carefully paid
With a rifle bullet buried in his heart
With a rifle bullet buried in his heart
Yes, they lined Joe Hill up against the wall
Blindfold over his eyes
It's the life of a rebel that he chose to live
It's the death of a rebel that he died
It's the death of a rebel that he died
Now some say Joe was guilty as charged
And some say he wasn't even there
And I guess nobody will ever know
'Cause the court records all disappeared
'Cause the court records all disappeared
Say wherever you go in this fair land
In every union hall
In the dusty dark these words are marked
In between all the cracks upon the wall
In between all the cracks upon the wall
It's the very last line that Joe Will wrote
When he knew that his days were through
Boys, this is my last and final will
Good luck to all of you
Good luck to all of you
Joan Baez : Ballad of Sacco & Vanzetti pt. 1 Lyrics
Give to me your tired and your poor
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me."
Blessed are the persecuted
And blessed are the pure in heart
Blessed are the merciful
And blessed are the ones who mourn
The step is hard that tears away the roots
And says goodbye to friends and family
[ Find more Lyrics on http://mp3lyrics.org/9Da ]
The fathers and the mothers weep
The children cannot comprehend
But when there is a promised land
The brave will go and others follow
The beauty of the human spirit
Is the will to try our dreams
And so the masses teemed across the ocean
To a land of peace and hope
But no one heard a voice or saw a light
As they were tumbled onto shore
And none was welcomed by the echo of the phrase
"I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Blessed are the persecuted
And blessed are the pure in heart
Blessed are the merciful
And blessed are the ones who mourn
Ballad of Sacco and Vanzetti, Pt. 2 Lyrics
Father, yes, I am a prisoner
Fear not to relay my crime
The crime is loving the forsaken
Only silence is shame
And now I'll tell you what's against us
An art that's lived for centuries
Go through the years and you will find
What's blackened all of history
Against us is the law
With its immensity of strength and power
Against us is the law!
Police know how to make a man
A guilty or an innocent
Against us is the power of police!
The shameless lies that men have told
Will ever more be paid in gold
Against us is the power of the gold!
Against us is racial hatred
And the simple fact that we are poor
My father dear, I am a prisoner
Don't be ashamed to tell my crime
The crime of love and brotherhood
And only silence is shame
With me I have my love, my innocence,
The workers, and the poor
For all of this I'm safe and strong
And hope is mine
Rebellion, revolution don't need dollars
They need this instead
Imagination, suffering, light and love
And care for every human being
You never steal, you never kill
You are a part of strength and life
The revolution goes from man to man
And heart to heart
And I sense when I look at the stars
That we are children of life
Death is small
Against All Authority, Haymarket Square
No one's gonna hold them down today
They're ready to fight for their rights
On May 3rd, 1886
Chicago burned with the fire they lit
The workers were on strike cause money's tight
The pigs were out and looking for a fight
They opened fire into the crowd
A worker was hit and he went down
No one's gonna hold them down
No! They're gonna burn this fuckin' town
August spies denounced capitalism
But he urged no violence
He was addressing a crowd of workers
The pigs ordered him silenced
A bomb was thrown and the silence wailed
A pig laid dead and 8 were jailed
That day the system failed
You know it never fails
If you think you can crush these ideas
That are gaining ground more each day
If death is the penalty for proclaiming truth
Then I'll proudly and defiantly pay
Four men were sentenced to death
To set an example to all the rest
Who would dare to stand and protest
The injustices we all detest
Billy Bragg I Dreamed I Saw Phil Ochs Last Night lyrics
I dreamed I saw Phil Ochs last night
Alive as you and me
Says I to Phil You're ten years dead
I never died says he
I never died says he
The music business killed you Phil
They ignored the things you said
And cast you out when fashions changed
Says Phil But I ain't dead
Says Phil But I ain't dead
The FBI harassed you Phil
They smeared you with their lies
Says he But they could never kill
What they could not compromise
I never compromised
Though fashion's changed and critics sneered
The songs that I have sung
Are just as true tonight as then
The struggle carries on
The struggle carries on
With the song of freedom rings out loud
From valleys and from hills
Where people stand up for their rights
Phil Ochs is with us still
Phil Ochs inspires us still
G
Gjestemedlem
Gjest
Presis. Og det er vel også derfor det ikke er så mange som har så mye interessant å si om Colombia heller. Kokainbaroner, fotball, Farc, militærbaser, adopterte barn og bananer. En god del mer interessant for oss en Usbekistan, men likevel sjelden over terskelen av mediestøy.Slubbert skrev:
Men ja, Sør Amerika har jo være en arena med mange ideologiske konflikter og stor grad av ekstern påvirkning fra stormakter og tidligere koloniherrer. Men de har da begynt å gå bort i fra militærkupp og mer over på valg i det minste, enten vi snakker om den nye Castro i Venezuela eller den nye Berlusconi i Chile.
N
nb
Gjest
Under de store "antikrigsdemonstasjonene" i Oslo ifm Irak-krigen for noen år siden hvor Petter Nome hadde sinde 15 minutter som folkefører var det morro å spørre noen av de mest ihuga demonstrantene hva som var den største væpende konfliken i verden nå og de siste årene. Det var selvsagt ingen av de som klarte å svare riktig på det spørsmålet.Slubbert skrev:
- Ble medlem
- 13.10.2005
- Innlegg
- 21.457
- Antall liker
- 6.883
Kanskje Hugo er litt sur fordi han selv ikke får kjøpe våpen av vestlige land lenger, men må klare seg med russiske...
Tror nok de russiske duger også.BT skrev:
Et kraftig luftforsvar med Sukhoi su 35 vil nok få USA/Columbia til å slutte å fly over Venezuela.
Er jo Columbia som er røverstaten så jeg skjønner ikke hvorfor Venezuela skal få så mye negativ oppmerksomhet.
Bø!
