Orchestral Concert CDs

Internaut · 04.01.2013

Gjennom mine aktiviteter på Discogs.com har jeg blitt kjent med Geoffrey Terry. En eldre herremann som sitter på et større arkiv med innspillinger han gjorde på 60-tallet (og begynnelsen av 70-tallet). En del av disse innspillingene har han nå gjort allment tilgjengelig gjennom labelen "Orchestral Concert CDs". Innspillingsfilosofien hans var ganske fascinerende; han brukte kun to mikrofoner, som var plassert (slik jeg forstår det) direkte over orkesteret. Resultatet er etter min oppfatning svært interessant.

CDene har fått ganske så god omtale rundtomkring (en av de vant blant annet 'German Critics award' for 2012 for historiske innspillinger), men har dessverre solgt dårlig. Han fortalte at han nettopp hadde investert i en annonse i 'Fanfare', som hadde resultert i 0 (null!) bestillinger. Det sier litt om hvor vanskelig det er å drive en liten uavhengig nisje-label i dagens marked.

Vil derfor oppfordre forumets medlemmer å besøke hjemmesiden hans, og hør på noen lydeksempler. Dette er en meget entusiastisk og kunnskapsrik mann som helt sikkert mer enn villig vil svare på evt. spørsmål dere måtte sende han på mail.

Her er link til noen omtaler:
Orchestral Concert CDs: Reviews

Omtale av innspillingsfilosofi etc: Orchestral Concert CDs: About
(Les også omtalen av Geoffrey der; litt av et liv.)

Liste over CDer tilgjengelig:
Orchestral Concert CDs: Issue Index

Det er også tilgjengelig en sampler CD der, samt filer for nedlasting.

Dersom noen bruker tid på dette hadde det vært svært interessant å høre hva dere synest om innspillngene

Sluket · 04.01.2013

Prisverdig tiltak! Jeg bestiller hele serien - interessante verker alt sammen.

baluba · 07.01.2013

Tenkte å sjekke ut sampleren, men ingen av filene fungerer. Ikke engang pdf-ene.

Internaut · 07.01.2013

baluba skrev:
Tenkte å sjekke ut sampleren, men ingen av filene fungerer. Ikke engang pdf-ene.

Det var veldig snodig. Alt funger her (på Mac/Safari). Hvilket system har du?

Noen andre som har problemer?

leser1 · 07.01.2013

Internaut skrev:
baluba skrev:

Tenkte å sjekke ut sampleren, men ingen av filene fungerer. Ikke engang pdf-ene.

Klikk for å utvide...

Det var veldig snodig. Alt funger her (på Mac/Safari). Hvilket system har du?

Noen andre som har problemer?

Det eneste jeg har problemer med er å ikke trykke "order all".
Har bestilt demo-CD og regner med at jeg følger Sluket hvis lyd er bra.

Sluket · 07.01.2013

Snakket med Geoffrey i dag og bestilte hele rekka. Må jo støtte et slikt initiativ synes jeg. Tilbød seg å sende alle i en pakke fraktfritt, men jeg tar heller to CD'er pr. forsendelse og betaler faktiske portokostnader - så blir det ikke noe trøbbel med Posten. Vært mye drit der i det siste.

leser1 · 07.01.2013

Han tilbød meg samme deal, Sluket. Jeg velger å vente til jeg har hørt igjennom sampleren og da bestille 2 og 2 under 200,- grensa.
Litt skal jo postmannen få løpe

vredensgnag · 07.01.2013

Terrys varmluftsteori har jeg vært skeptisk til siden jeg første gang kom over den, men resultatene er det lite å utsette på, og jeg liker enkle opptak.

Fremfor å starte en ny tråd, vil jeg også anbefale to CDer som jeg lærte mye av. Det er John Eargle som systematisk tar for seg opptaksutfordringer i forhold til bestemte stykker og besetninger, og viser hva som blir følgene av bestemte valg. Han er dog villig til å anvende mikrofoner der han mener de gir utbytte, og gjerne flere enn to.
Recording of April 1989: <I>The Symphonic Soundstage</I> | Stereophile.com

Sluket · 07.01.2013

Spent på disse - liker også "enkle" opptak med få mikrofoner - kan være like besnærende som store vitenskapelige påkostede opptak, rent musikalsk sett.

vredensgnag · 07.01.2013

Mange av de mest engasjerende opptakene fra Living Presence, Command Classics, Everest, Living Stereo, osv., fra stereoens barndom, ble som regel gjort med tre mikrofoner. Der den tredje i senter oftest var til mono-opptaket, slik at man der anvendte teknikken Terry gjorde bruk av.
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/mercury.html

baluba · 07.01.2013

Nei, støttemikrofonen mikses inn i stereomasteren.

baluba · 07.01.2013

Internaut skrev:
baluba skrev:

Tenkte å sjekke ut sampleren, men ingen av filene fungerer. Ikke engang pdf-ene.

Klikk for å utvide...

Det var veldig snodig. Alt funger her (på Mac/Safari). Hvilket system har du?

Noen andre som har problemer?

Pakken kom ned, og ble unzippet i et program som ellers ikke gjør noe tøys. Skjønner det ikke helt, for det så greit ut.

vredensgnag · 07.01.2013

baluba skrev:
Nei, støttemikrofonen mikses inn i stereomasteren.

Som du vil se i linken jeg la inn, så gjorde Living Presence det ikke slik. Det var Cosimas varemerke. Men da de begynte med trekanalsopptak lagde de en to-kanals downmix, i noen tilfeller, når sluttresultatet skulle på vinyl.
I andre hadde man separate båndopptakere kjørende for stereo og mono, og da la man senter-mic, som i Living Presence tidlige opptak, til egen båndopptaker.

Noe som er interessant er at jeg ofte opplever mono-opptak som med større realistisk vekt enn stereoversjonene av samme - her kan det være snakk om fravær av kanselleringseffekter ...

Heimdall · 07.01.2013

Tok sjansen og bestilte disse

Boden9 · 07.01.2013

Takk for tråden! Hopper forsiktig i det med å bestille 9 og 11

baluba · 08.01.2013

vredensgnag skrev:
baluba skrev:

Nei, støttemikrofonen mikses inn i stereomasteren.

Klikk for å utvide...

Som du vil se i linken jeg la inn, så gjorde Living Presence det ikke slik. Det var Cosimas varemerke. Men da de begynte med trekanalsopptak lagde de en to-kanals downmix, i noen tilfeller, når sluttresultatet skulle på vinyl.
I andre hadde man separate båndopptakere kjørende for stereo og mono, og da la man senter-mic, som i Living Presence tidlige opptak, til egen båndopptaker.

Noe som er interessant er at jeg ofte opplever mono-opptak som med større realistisk vekt enn stereoversjonene av samme - her kan det være snakk om fravær av kanselleringseffekter ...

Burde kanskje åpnet den lenken, he he he. Vel, Mercury gjorde altså ikke det. Men i dag bruker man faktisk en slik filosofi i klassisk, hvis man ikke går apekatt med nærmikrofoni.

Internaut · 09.01.2013

Har fått mail fra Hr. Terry. Han er meget overrasket og ikke mindre glad for ordrene han har fått fra Norge. Han skjønte fint lite av hvorfor han plutselig fikk flere ordre fra Norge sånn helt ut av det blå

Til dere som har bestilt: hyggelig om dere følger opp med omtale av CDene som etterhvert ramler inn i stuene rundtomkring.

leser1 · 14.01.2013

Fikk min demo-CD i posten på lørdag allerede, men har ikke rukket å høre gjennom den. Kjapp leveranse!

Sluket · 05.03.2013

I dag kom CD no. 5 og 6 i posten:

No. 5 er fra The Royal Festival Hall i London, opptaket er fra 1966 og det er en herlig live stemning... Litt overstyrt, men ikke verre enn at alle de sedvanlige gode lydmessige egenskapene kan nytes. Et variert og fint repertoir, som avsluttes med Berlioz og Rakoczy March - relativt uvanlige saker..

Sluket · 05.03.2013

No. 6 er storklassikeren B7, Anton Bruckners Symfoni nummer 7, sikkert kjent for de fleste.

Det er noe spesielt med "vintage" klassiske artister/musikere - mere trøkk og energi på en måte.. og det høres definitivt på denne innspillingen. Den ekstremt servicevennlige Geoffrey har sendt med en ekstra CD-r p.g.a. en dropout på et sekund et stykke ut i opptaket.. feil fra den japanske pressingen. Fikk også tilbud om å returnere CD og "full refund". Makeløst. men cd'en blir nok her ja...

slowmotion · 05.03.2013

Takk for tipset, laster ned samplern nå!

Sluket · 05.03.2013

Hadde en lengre ordveksling med den godeste Hr. Terry her om dagen - gutten er 78 år og har ingen planer om å gi seg!!! Lever og ånder for musikk og innspillinger/opptak, han har flere på beddingen men det koster. Fire nye CD'er er planlagt, og han har MYE mer materiale. Jeg har kommet til å like denne koselige gamle entusiasten som har laget så mange flotte ekte opptak, og bestiller nå 10 komplette sett av HELE rekka med innspillinger (14 stk.) til venner og kjente. Håper virkelig det finnes fler av hans kaliber der ute?? Tips anyone?

Steinar_Lund · 05.03.2013

Dette føler jeg virkelig for! Har stor sans for slike entusiaster.
I første omgang har jeg lastet ned sampleren og så får jeg se hva mer det blir til. Nr 1 og 5 ligger uansett høyt på ønskelisten.

Edit: Jeg kjenner jo begrepet tålmodighet stort sett av omtale, så jeg har nå bestilt disse to cd'ene. Og gleder meg!

Steinar_Lund · 08.03.2013

Jeg har nettopp hatt en utveksling av eposter med Geoffrey Kerry, og med hans tillatelse legger jeg ut en av dem her:

"I'm amazed and very impressed that Norway, with a population of only five million, has featured quite regularly in my list of addresses for CDs. A fact which compensates for the disappointment that has resulted from a general lack of interest, elsewhere, in the CDs I have produced.
Obviously the financial situation is a concern but I had no thought of making money when I founded Orchestra Concert CDs, in fact I expected to subsidise what I produced. For me it was important to make the historic performances available to those who love music as I do.

Incidentally the hub of sound quality of the CDs I have published is a tape recorder manufactured in Norway. Yes, the recordings were made on a Tandberg. I had a Hi Fi shop in South London in the 60s and concentrated on Tandberg products because I considered that Mr. Tandberg, whom I met, had a policy of production which resulted in 'musical' Hi Fi, rather than the desire to create electronic, technical machines, that was a successful side effect. I still have a complete Tandberg Hi Fi system, including a pair of monitor loudspeakers.

I mustn't take up too much of your time but I have attached a short article I wrote about the Dvorak 9th which is currently en route to you.

I hope, when you hear the two CDs, you will feel that the music is the priority; without a good hi fi system obviously the sound quality cannot be appreciated but the best hi fi system in the world is useless if the source of sound is of poor quality.

I would like to express my sincere thanks to the members of your Hi Fi Forum for the support they have kindly given to OCCDs, I think that without this recent interest I might by now have begun to consider giving up.

I have visited your beautiful country on several occasions, not least of which was when I had discussion with the Oslo Philharmonic with a view to arranging a tour of the UK, I know that you are a series, intelligent and cultured people. Norway has been shielded from most of the disasters afflicting the world because of those attributes. Good luck Norway.

Kind regards,
Geoffrey"

Sluket · 08.03.2013

Spilte CD nr. 5 og 6 i serien i går kveld - litt varierende lydkvalitet, men den sedvanlige nærheten og nakenheten i opptakene er selvsagt på plass. Alt er "live" og andelen forkjølte konsertgjengere er påtagelig...

Steinar_Lund · 08.03.2013

[FONT=&quot] Det blir kanskje litt mye klipp og lim dette her, men jeg fikk også lyst til å sitere et vedlegg han hadde til ovennevnte e-post. Jeg har liksom fått litt sansen for denne herren, og vil gjerne hjelpe til med å gjøre ham enda litt mer kjent for folk her på forumet:

As you have never before heard it. As it should be heard.

Presumably, like me, you already have a CD of the Symphony No 9 by Antonin Dvořák.
However, I doubt that you listen to it very often.
There are literally hundreds of different recordings. Some, where the playing is excellent. Some, where the recording is excellent. Some, where both playing and recording are excellent. There are others where both playing and recording are totally unacceptable.
However, whenever I listen to one particular recording it is like hearing the piece for the first time - every time.
There are no dramatic changes of tempo, no extremes of any sort, just a perfect performance and a perfect recording. It is like looking at a painting after restoration.
It is profoundly Czech, why would it not be? It is played by a Czech Orchestra and conducted by a true, Czech giant.
Once, whilst traveling on tour with the Brno Philharmonic Orchestra in the UK I was asked what BRNO signified, was it perhaps the British Railways Northern Orchestra? And that was a serious suggestion.
To the English ear it is a strange sounding name, Brno. Probably not many appreciate that Brno is the second largest city in the Czech Republic, the capital of Moravia. It is just a short journey north of Vienna, in fact nearer to Vienna than to Prague. Now we have all heard of Prague.
The Brno Philharmonic Orchestra is one of the largest in Europe. It is one of only three orchestras ever to have played for the Pope - now he’s fussy.
I once heard the Czech Philharmonic performing Dvořák’s Stabat Matter in Prague. The following evening I heard the same work performed by the Brno Philharmonic Orchestra in Brno. To my surprise I enjoyed the second performance more than the first. The conductor, Antonio Ross Marba, directed both performances, so a difference in style wasn’t the reason. The Czech Philharmonic is of course a wonderful Orchestra, one of the greatest in the world; the point is that the Brno Orchestra should be considered in the same category.
The Brno Philharmonic Orchestra, with their principal conductor, Jiři Waldhans gave a performance of Dvořák’s 9th Symphony in the Royal Festival Hall on the 22nd October 1966. If was a live, public performance on the very first tour of the UK by the orchestra. The concert was also recorded and the recording technique employed was CNSTR. What is that? Certified, natural, sound, technique recording; (more below).
The string section, on that historic occasion, constituted of: 16 first violins, 16 second, 16 violas, 16 cellos and 8 double basses, with a normal compliment of woodwind, brass and percussion. A full, Symphony Orchestra indeed.

The opening pp bars of the first movement set the scene, controlled and electrifying. Then the French Horns brief comment followed by the woodwind, responding with heart-rending clarity, as if drifting across a calm lake.
The calm is then broken by a snapped announcement from the strings, followed by a crisp triplet on the timpani – the unmistakable sound of wood striking skin, of that there is no doubt. (It seems that capturing that particular sound creates difficulty for many CD publishers, not so here).
The short strings, followed by timpani, phrase is repeated several times then followed by the deep, rich sound of the basses and cellos all - 24 of them, their rosined bows exciting the strings of their instruments to produce a sound that is precisely reproduced on the recording. Then several more short statements from each of the sections of the orchestra before the introduction leads to the first theme.
Waldhans draws beauty, drama, elegance and most of all nuances from the highly skilled team under his command.
The elegiac second movement emphasises the nostalgia of the composer for his homeland.
The staccato opening of the third movement reminds us that we are sitting in the Royal Festival Hall, perhaps the centre of the 5th row from the front. If we close our eyes for a moment we could easily be mislead into believing that to be the case. By now the professionalism of the orchestra has been clearly established. Once again the attack of the timpani resonates in uncanny realism.
The full dynamic range is wholly due to the direction of the conductor since no adjustments were made to the level during the recording process. The only electronic alterations made to the recording at all were to remove any extraneous noises, even then providing that the music was unaffected. The end result is a unique experience. A truly, natural, acoustic, mirror image of the glorious sound of the Brno Philharmonic Orchestra in a realistic representation of the sound that evening in the Royal Festival Hall.

The programme included a little know masterpiece.

Jan Novák Philharmonic Dances (18:28)

Jan Novak was the only pupil of Bohuslav Martinu and, being tutored by such a distinct master, Novak could not fail but be influenced by the individualism of the newly re-discovered genius.

The Philharmonic Dances were written for large orchestra. By good fortune the orchestra fulfilled the composers requirements.

The first movement, Allegro, opens with the side drum dictating a staccato beat, which is then taken up by the strings and horns in counterpoint announcing the two themes which hop around amongst all the sections of the orchestra.
The development becomes slightly grotesque but reverts to sanity intermittently.
By contrast the second movement, moderato, is gentle and lyrical. The hurdy-gurdy imitation of the central passage leads to the first, short example of syncopation, almost a trademark of Novak.
The final movement, vivace, as with the first movement opens with the side drum and quickly settles to syncopated rhythms that grow, utilising all the facilities available in the orchestra.
The composition is full of melodies, colourful orchestration and all the diverse sounds are captured on this recording with remarkable clarity.

Out of deference to their host country two very English pieces by Frederick Delius were chosen to close the concert.
One might expect that Irmelin and Koanga from La Calinda need to be performed by a British ensemble to achieve a musical picture of the English countryside. Here the Czechoslovaks, as they were at the time of concert, undertake the task and achieve perfection.

The CD described above is the first CD ever to carry the CNSTR approval. It is also the first to be published by [/FONT][FONT=&quot]www.occds.org[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A visit to the site will give you the opportunity to judge the sound quality, from sound samples of the CDs currently available.

CNSTR

Category: Sound Recording
Subcategory: Sound Recording Technique
Industry Standard

CNSTR, the acronym for Certified Natural Sound Technique Recording, is a newly introduced, (September 2008), standard for the commercial recording industry, directed in particular at manufacturers of classical music CDs.
It is a voluntary code of practice for CD publishers, however, the addition of the CNSTR logo, to published CDs, provides assurance, for the purchaser, that the recording was undertaken to conform to a minimum standard.
There has been an ever-growing, general consensus of opinion that recordings of classical music are being over engineered, resulting in a sound quality that is not entirely relevant to the original.

CNSTR has been expressed in layman terms since it is a reference intended for the public.

With the rapid advance in acoustic technology the majority of recording studios have, in an endeavor to keep breast of the times, introduced ever more complex equipment and procedures into the sound recording process. A trend which has resulted in an ever increasing difference between natural and recorded sound.

In the majority of recordings of symphony orchestras a considerable number of microphones is employed, positioned at stratigic points amongst the players.
The sound, picked up by the microphones, is fed to a control panel where an engineer constantly adjusts the level in an endeavor to establish what he considers the composer intended in the score.

The engineer is undertaking to correct the directions of the conductor who, from a musical point of view, is better qualified to perform the task.

With CNSTR only two microphones are utilized. The task of the recording engineer is to establish the best postions for the microphones so that: 1. They faithfully capture the full spectrum of the orchestra and simulate a left and right image that would be heard sitting in an optimum position in the auditorium. 2. Prior to the recording the engineer should establish the maximum level of sound likely to be produced by the ensemble. The level controls being set to that position and no corrections or alterations being made during the performance.
Following completion of the recording process any extraneous noises, tape hiss or coughing should be removed. There the process terminates, the resultant recorded sound being a Natural Sound, by virtue of the fact that it has not been transformed in any way electronically. Multiple reproductions, CDs, of the recording can then be produced without any additional electronic process.

CD producers who voluntarily adhere to the criteria are permitted to add the logo CNSTR to their CDs.

Examples of recordings made, using CNSTR, can be heard by going to the foot of the webpage: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://www.occds.org/info/cnstr.html[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
There, you will find, sound samples of:
Solo instrument - RFH Organ, Trio - piano violin and cello, Chamber orchestra
Symphony Orchestra, Enlarged Symphony Orchestra and Opera all in live performances.[/FONT]

Orchestral Concert CDs

Hi-Fi interessert

Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

Æresmedlem

Hi-Fi interessert

leser1

Gjest

Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

leser1

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vredensgnag

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Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

vredensgnag

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Æresmedlem

Æresmedlem

vredensgnag

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Hi-Fi freak

Hi-Fi entusiast

Æresmedlem

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leser1

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Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

Hi-Fi freak

Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

Hi-Fi freak

Hi-Fi freak

Sivilaudiofil og Master Baiter

Hi-Fi freak