EC AW220 (AW70) purchase question

Hello,

I'm sorry if I already posted this. I couldn't find it on the forum

I live in the US in New Jersey, and don't speak your language. I know at least some of the posters on this forum speak English, and I was hoping someone could help me with an Electrocompaniet purchase decision.

Luckily the registration process for this forum is similar to most others with which I I'm familiar so I was able to work my way through without knowing the language.

Following is some background. My question is at the end.

My current system consists of the following components:

1. EC EMC 1 UP, which is the current 24 Bit upsampler 192KHz DAC

2. Parasound Halo P3 balanced preamp. (soon to be upgraded)

3. EC AW70 70 watts per channel in stereo mode

4. NBS Serpent III balanced audio cables and speaker cables.

5. Magnepan (Magneplaner) MG1.6 QR.

6. AR turntable and Linn Basik LVX arm and Ortophon high output moving coil cartridge.

The MG1.6 QRs are 4 Ohm speakers. Tests by the US publication 'Stereophile' indicates that the lowest resistance for this speaker is 4.5 Ohms.

I don't know how available or popular Maggies are in Europe, but for those not familiar with them, Magneplanars are large planar magnetic panel speakers with a sheet of mylar stretched over a magnetic network. The speakers also contains what is referred to as a quasi ribbon which handles frequencies above 600 hz. This is a highly regarded two way speaker over here and is relatively inexpensive at around $1800 US.

The Electrocompanient seems to be a very nice sounding amp, but only puts out 70 watts at 8 ohms and 120 watts at 4 ohms. The Maggies are VERY inefficent. 1 watt only produces around 83 db at 1 metre. As you can imagine, its easily to run out of power with a 70 watt amp, especially on classical recordings with a wide dyamic range.

The AW70, which according to the US distributor is renamed but identical in all respects to the AW220, can also run in mono mode and produce 220 watts. The US distributor Jason Scott Inc has a demo AW220 which they are willing to sell me through my dealer at a very attractive price with a full EC warranty! The review of a pair of AW220 (AW70) amps received a rave review in 2003 from the English language online high end website Stereo Times.

Finally my question ???. When a pair of AW220s (or AW70s) are used as monoblocks does the output impedence fall too low to be used with a 4 ohm speaker like the Maggies. The EC manual for my AW70 raised my concerns regarding this question.

The distibutor indicated that while they couldn't be certain, they believed the combination would work, although the amps might run hotter. They indicated they were sending an email to the factory in Norway to get their opinion.

Any feedback on this combination with regard to the impedance question, or any other opinions would be welcomed.

Thank you

Mark

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the forum!  8)

Not much response here, it seems...
I'm sure EC will be happy to answer any questions you might have regarding the AW70/AW220.

Try: service@electrocompaniet.no or sales@electrocompaniet.no

cheers,

Hello,

I'm sorry if I already posted this. I couldn't find it on the forum


Mark

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Hi Mark

Nice to see American people buys Norwegian high-end gear ...personally I'm fond of American high-end gear

Anyway, I would suggest you go for the AW-250R which has 2x250W and great current capacity, and would not have any problems driving "low-load speakers".

This one sounds "much" better (in my ears) compared to their smaller amps.

Good luck!

Hi,

I have used 2xAW220 on Dali Helicon400 4ohm 88db speakers with good results. Earlier I used 2xAW60 on Proac Response 2.5 8 ohm 86db, also with good results. The EC amps should be stable down to 2 ohm. EC should confirm this in their email.

Here's my thoughts in bad english (and I'm not very technical): You're going to use the amps in bridged mode? When bridging, the curent through the outputstage will double, and heat will increase. Since your loudspeakers are both a low sensitivity and low impedance design, you'll probably drive them (the amps) hard. My guess is that EC probably will warn against a solution like you're thinking of.

Best regards Johan

Some differences in the response here. I'm sure that two EC220 in bridged mode will run to hot with your "Maggies" and I will suggest that you sell your EC AW70 and try an EC AW250 as suggested earlier. This amp is much more powerful in the low resistant range that you need.

Hi Mark

Nice to see American people buys Norwegian high-end gear  ...personally I'm fond of American high-end gear  

Anyway, I would suggest you go for the AW-250R which has 2x250W and great current capacity, and would not have any problems driving "low-load speakers".

This one sounds "much" better (in my ears) compared to their smaller amps.

Good luck!

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First, thank you both for the welcome to this forum. I wish I was able to speak with you in your own language, but thanks to you as well as any future posters for your patience by responding in English.

I have joined this forum primarily because it is Norwegian, and I believe it's the best place to get a concensus from actual users of EC gear.

Electroconpaniet is available in the US through a small number of dealers across the country. However EC is still relatively unknown here compared to most other high end brands, in part because of the lack of reviews in American publications like 'The Absolute Sound' or 'Stereophile'.

EC is also relatively expense over here. The Nemos cost around $14,000, (thats US dollars) a pair over here. The current price for the EMC 1 UP is $5600. While somes discounts are available, this equipment is still more expensive than in Europe. Currently $1 = 6.6789 Kroner and 1.26129 Euros.

While I appreciate the advice on the AW250, I already own an AW70. The AW220 demo from the US distributor would only cost $1700. A new AW250 would cost around $6000 after a discount, with another $400 for tax. Just too expensive for me at this time.

I realize that a AW250 would be a better match for a 4 ohm speaker load, but do you feel the AW70/AW220 monoblocks would not be able to drive the maggies successfully? I don't want both amps to self destruct and take the speakers with them, and I don't want the sound to suffer due to a loading problem.

My current situation is simple. Either I add the AW220 now and run the AW70 and AW220 as monoblocks, or I will continue to use the AW70 alone in stereo mode until I can afford a suitable replacement. Any additonal opinions would be appreciated.

Regards
Mark

Hi Mark

No. There will be NO problem driving the Magnepan's with the EC 120 in bridged mode. The amp is stable down to 0,5 Ohm and a current reservoir of 150.000uF.

The EC amp will drive most speakers on the market, and with very good results also in bridged mode.

Rgds

Thanks for the additional responses. You've confirmed my concerns.

The engineer at the US distributor indicates I should try using them both in mono mode anyway. He said the protective circuit will shut them down before any damage is done to the amps, and depending on the actual load, and hard I drive them, the combination could work. He and my dealer will take the AW220 back if I'm unhappy with the results.

Is it worth trying? Do any of you you see any danger to my speakers?

I am greatful for all the feedback.

Regards,
Mark

Hi Mark

No. There will be NO problem driving the Magnepan's with the EC 120 in bridged mode. The amp is stable down to 0,5 Ohm and a current reservoir of 150.000uF.

The EC amp will drive most speakers on the market, and with very good results also in bridged mode.

Rgds

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Thanks for the response. The amps I'm talking about are the AW70 and AW220 which I believe are identical. ECs literature indicates that these amps when bridged should not be used in a load of less than 4 ohms. Were you refering to the AW120 amp?

Regards,
Mark

Google links AW220

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1018912484&openfrom&17&4

Maybe it is helpful. I agree that AW250 is a more powerful option but EC should know this best

Thanks for the additional responses.  You've confirmed my concerns.

The engineer at the US distributor indicates I should try using them both in mono mode anyway. He said the protective circuit will shut them down before any damage is done to the amps, and depending on the actual load, and hard I drive them, the combination could work. He and my dealer will take the AW220 back if I'm unhappy with the results.  

Is it worth trying? Do any of you you see any danger to my speakers?

I am greatful for all the feedback.

Regards,
Mark

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Then I would go for it

Hi Mark.

I have the AW-220 myself, and are running them in bridged mode
on my Dynaudio Contour S3.4. The speakers are 4 ohm.
I have also used the amps on Proac Response 2.5 ( 4 ohm).

The amps have no problem with this load.

I`m sure you will have no problem driving your speakers with these
amps.


Best regards.

Ove Thorvaldsen

Hi Mark.

I have the AW-220 myself, and are running them in bridged mode
on my Dynaudio Contour S3.4. The speakers are 4 ohm.
I have also used the amps on Proac Response 2.5 ( 4 ohm).

The amps have no problem with this load.

I`m sure you will have no problem driving your speakers with these
amps.


Best regards.

Ove Thorvaldsen

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Thanks. I'll have a chance to try it out myself this week

Regards,
Mark

By the way, I am also a former owner of EC (AW 180, 4.5) and I'd just like to inform You that at Electrocompaniet in Norway they do upgrade elder constructions. If there is any difference between the models AW70 and the AW220, I quite shure that the AW70 can be upgraded to AW220 standards if thereis a difference between them.

Best Regards

Bjørn

Thanks to all for their responses so far. This looks like a great forum. I hope to be able to teach myself some Norwegian so I can participate fully.

By the way, the EMC 1 UP has gotten rave reviews around the world as one of the great CD players. The current model has been around for quite a while now. How is it rated in Norway compared to current Asian, European and American designs? I love mine, but I haven't had extended listening sessions with the competition in a familiar, controlled environment like my listening room at home.

One of the reasons I chose EC components is due to an authorized dealer very close by who lets me audition equipment at home before purchasing it. That kind of service is rare to almost non-existant in the US.

Thats the kind of service everyone should have, aspecially since enthusiasts often spend a considerable part of their income on expensive Hi-Fi. But, often dealers don't have equipment for borrowing, or simply the trust between the customer and the salesman in general is the tricky part. But here it's not uncommon to borrow home equipment, usually leaving a deposit at the store or sometimes purely on trust between the customer and the salesman.

The EMC 1 UP is rated fairly high here in Norway compared to most very expensive CD-players. Of course there are better players at an unaffordable price, but the previous model was rated here meybe even a tad better than the Stereophile A-rated Meridian 508.24 a three or or four years ago.

The new model is said in the High End magazines here to be very improved, and formidable player considering it's price tag here. And even here it is not cheap...

Maybe we have some owners on this forum that would like to say something about it..?


Best Regards

Bjørn

The EMC 1 UP is rated fairly high here in Norway compared to most very expensive CD-players. Of course there are better players at an unaffordable price, but the previous model was rated here meybe even a tad better than the Stereophile A-rated Meridian 508.24 a three or or four years ago.

The new model is said in the High End magazines here to be very improved, and formidable player considering it's price tag here. And even here it is not cheap...

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As expensive as EC equipment is in Norway, its probably twice as costly here in the states. The current list price of the EMC here is $5600 or around 7100 Euros. Dealer discounts are not much more than 10% -15% on this type of gear assuming you can get even that. I'm guessing it can be purchased in Europe for closer to 3500 Euros and perhaps less.

As far as the new mutliplayer player is concerned, I saw references to it on the EC website some months ago referring to 3rd quarter 2006 availability. I don't see any references to it on their website now, nor on the website of the US distributor. Is the unit currently available for sale in Norway?

Regards,
Mark

As expensive as EC equipment is in Norway, its probably twice as costly here in the states. The current list price of the EMC here is $5600 or around 7100 Euros. Dealer discounts are not much more than 10% -15% on this type of gear assuming you can get even that. I'm guessing it can be purchased in Europe for closer to 3500 Euros and perhaps less.

As far as the new mutliplayer player is concerned, I saw references to it on the EC website some months ago referring to 3rd quarter 2006 availability. I don't see any references to it on their website now, nor on the website of the US distributor. Is the unit currently available for sale in Norway?

Regards,
Mark

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The EC price here in Norway are about 15% lower than the States, and that is very good, concidering that Krell KAV 400IX cost about 1750 dollars + tax (20%?) over there. The same amp costs about 5200 dollars her in Norway! So EC is in that comparison quite a catch!

Mvh
Andreas

The EC price here in Norway are about 15% lower than the States, and that is very good, concidering that Krell KAV 400IX cost about 1750 dollars + tax (20%?) over there. The same amp costs about 5200 dollars her in Norway! So EC is in that comparison quite a catch!  

Mvh
Andreas

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The current sales tax in New Jersey was recently raised to 7%. In New York City it's 8.25 %. In some states it verges close to 0%. There is no national sales tax. Most commerce is regulated by the states. Sales taxes and income taxes seem to be lower in the US than in many countries in Europe. I think this is in part because we don't provide the same types and quality of low cost or no cost social and medical programs that we see in a number of countires on your side of the Atlantic. The programs we do have vary dramatically from state to state. While we may appear to have more money left over in our paychecks, it goes more quickly as a result.

Maybe You should by the EMC 1UP over here, come visit some stores and enthusiasts and even contribute to our welfare system?

-yes, some poeple over here only focus on the prices on different products in themselves and seem to forget that people in the United States must pay for their own welfare through the private insurance system. I have been thinking of the disaster with Enron lately, where 20 000 employee's lost not just their jobs, but even their pensions.


Best Regards


Bjørn

Maybe You should by the EMC 1UP over here, come visit some stores and enthusiasts and even contribute to our welfare system?

-yes, some poeple over here only focus on the prices on different products in themselves and seem to forget that people in the United States must pay for their own welfare through the private insurance system. I have been thinking of the disaster with Enron lately, where 20 000 employee's lost not just their jobs, but even their pensions.


Best Regards


Bjørn

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Good point. As an example (and I'm not complaining), my job for the last 12 years was just outsourced to India.

I was working for the French consulting company Cap Gemini. They had no pension plan. While they did provide partial matching funds to a special type of retirement account I had set up, most of the contributions were my own.

My wife has a good job with a pension, and we will have several sources of incomes for our retirement including savings, but it took planning and discipline on our part to ensure we wouldn't have to rely soley on the small amount which we would get from our Social Security program. My apologies, this is off topic

I got an answer to my query from EC's Stian Langvik. He wrote, "I don’t have any experience on your speakers, but if they don’t fall below 4,5 ohms, there shouldn’t be any problems running the AW 220 in bridge mode.

The AW 70 is the same as the AW 220, so you safely combine one AW 70 and one AW 220."

The US distributor delivered the AW220 to my dealer last night and I got it this morning and hooked it. This amp already had a few hundred hours on it. The results were what I had hoped.

There is now a wider and deeper sound stage. There seems to be more back to front layering, and instruments and voices seem to stand out more, with more air around them. The bass also seems to be more solid than before. Auditory memory is short, but there is clearly a more viseral feel to the music with improved dynamics, plus I'm no longer running out of power on wide dynamic range CDs like Chesky Records "Area 51" I can't begin to imagine what the Nemos would sound like with a better preamp than my Halo P3.

This AW220 is a VERY old one. The serial number is 0000008. That's right 8! Even though its looks and sounds good, and comes with a warranty, it's several years old and have been shipped from show to during it's life so I'm concerned about its long term reliability. As a result my dealer indicated he can get me a new AW70 for a very reasonable price and I opted to get the new unit rather than keep the used AW220.

Thank you all for you feedback.