Som en av få ( eneste ? ) eiere/brukere så langt i Norge av Ayre DX-5,
har selvfølgelig en del av de siste innleggene i denne tråden ikke gått
helt upåaktet hen.
Føler derfor et ønske om å dele mine tanker og betraktninger om det som har blitt
påstått og skrevet.
Det har stadig blitt referert til Ayre DX-5 som en oppgradert/modifisert Oppo BDP-83SE.
Her er "nakenbilde" av Oppo'n
og her av Ayre'n
og når man da legger til dette
Bør vel legge til hva Ayre har gjort i forsvar for de. Sitat av Chales Hansen under. Ser at han mener videodelen også skal ha blitt forbedret, men det har jeg mine tvil om.
To make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset.
Next we re-build the main PCB. The big switching power supply only provides 5 VDC, then there are little mini-switching power supplies (called DC-DC converters) on the main PCB that turn the 5 VDC into 1.0 VDC, 1.1 VDC, 1.8 VDC, and 3.3 VDC. All of those are removed. There are also USB power switches that allow hot-plugging of USB devices. These are removed as they have another kind of DC-DC converter called a "charge pump".
All of the supplies are replaced with pure linear supplies with analog regulators. The USB power switches are replaced with devices without the charge pumps. Now we have gotten rid of seven noise sources that create high-frequency square waves with harmonics well out into the MHz region. Getting rid of all of that noise creates a visibly cleaner picture.
Next, we replace the low-quality master video clock with a VCXO. This becomes more important later on, as you will see.
Now we start adding things back in. First is our AyreLink communication system. It allows AyreLink equipped components to act as one big system. For example, turning on the player will turn on all of the downstream components as well as automatically select the correct input on the preamp. We also make an external RS-232 to AyreLink converter box for system controllers like Crestrons. The AyreLink system has opto-isolators between each component to avoid unwanted ground loops, which is why we don't use RS-232 inputs on any of our equipment.
Then we add a custom programmed FPGA on the front panel PCB to do some housekeeping. It intercepts the appropriate commands and translates them to operate the AyreLink system. It disables the internal volume control (which operates in the digital domain and degrades the sound) and instead routes the volume changes to an AyreLink equipped preamp. It also allows us to send custom messages to the front panel VFD display. So when the USB audio input is activated, it will report that on the front panel along with the sample rate of the received signal.
There are a bunch of boards added on the audio side. I say "side" because we literally split the player into two parts. There is a separate power transformer that runs all of the audio circuitry, which is separated from the video side by a bank of opto-isolators. So the audio and video "sides" have separate grounds that are completely galvanically isolated. This is the only way to get the best performance from either your audio system or your video system.
All video displays have switching power supplies that dump noise into your system in the absence of such isolation. There are also ground loops that are inevitably formed as there is no such thing as a balanced video connection. All of those problems go away with our isolation system.
The ten-channel audio board is replaced by a two-channel audio board. Everything on this board is top-quality, with discrete, fully balanced, zero-feedback audio circuitry and discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulators. There are improvements in both the parts quality and circuit design that give it even higher performance than the QB-9 USB DAC that was recently rated "Class A+" in Stereophile's recommended components issue. For two-channel disc playback (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio), the performance exceeds our $6,000 audio-only disc player.
We also add the USB audio input that allows you to connect your personal computer and turn your system into a music server. Your entire digital library (except SACD's, thank you very much Sony -- not!) can be stored on a hard drive and played back with the click of a mouse. So this one component can be the only source component that you need. This input is also connected via a bank of opto-isolators, so there is actually a *third* "side" to the system -- the video, the audio, and the computer. The noise from your computer and its switching power supply will not be connected to either your video or audio systems.
We also add a second audio-only HDMI connector. This is fed by the isolated signals on the audio "side" so that it won't contaminate your surround-sound system if you choose to connect one. It also supports the new "Audio Rate Control" (ARC) feature that is part of the HDMI 1.3a specifcation. This is a breakthrough for the surround-sound enthusiast, as HDMI is normally the worst way in the world to send audio data -- the jitter is even worse than the lowly S/PDIF connection.
But with ARC, the surround-sound processor uses a local crystal oscillator to provide a low-jitter clock to the DAC chips. Then there is a buffer that stores the incoming audio data. When the buffer is too full it sends a signal back upstream to the Blu-Ray player telling it to slow down the disc slightly. When the buffer is too empty, it asks the disc to speed up slightly. Now the audio clock is in charge, the way that it should be. (When the unit is running in two-channel mode, the local low-jitter, fixed-frequency crystal oscillator provides the master audio clock.)
With a modern digital display (plasma, LCD, LCOS, DLP, et cetera) jitter on the video signal does not matter. Since there is no conversion to analog, the digital signal values are simply stored in a frame buffer until needed.
Then the whole thing is put into a custom chassis made entirely from anodized aluminum and stainless steel. We want our products to look just as good 50 years from now as they do today. There are other people making Oppo "clones". One of them only replaces the chassis. Another replaces the power supply also. Nobody is rebuilding the complete player and adding the extra features and advanced technology that Ayre is.
As far as the value, it is up to you to determine that. I can't tell you how much an improved picture is worth. I can't tell you how much better sound is worth. I can't tell you how much the features we add are worth. You will have to decide that for yourself.
What I can tell you is that, just like all of our other products, they offer engineering and performance beyond what anyone else is offering, at a fair price that reflects our cost of manufacturing, and that we back up our products with both a strong network of the finest dealers on the planet and an incredible service policy.
Unlike other manufacturers that try to sell you a "new and improved" product every year or two, when we figure out a way to genuinely improve the performance of our existing products, we offer upgrades to current owners at very reasonable prices. Go to the Audio Asylum and check out some comments regarding our recent "MP" upgrades to the C-5xe and CX-7e disc players, for example.
If you want a great Blu-Ray player for an incredible price, buy the Oppo. If you want the best picture and sound quality in the world for your home theater and price is not a concern, check out the Ayre. And no, it will not be available in November, sorry. Early next year will be a better guess.
føler jeg at ordene modifisert og oppgradert kanskje blir litt misvisende !?
Når jeg tenker på et produkt som oppgradert/modifisert, ser jeg for meg et produkt hvor
enkelte komponenter er byttet til høyere kvalitet ( bedre spec ), eller kanskje en
bedre strømforsyning, men hvor hovedkostruksonen er beholdt.
Ayre har jo konstruert et helt nytt produkt hvor de har valgt å bruke Oppo som underleverandør på
drivverk og hovedkort for bildedelen ( og denne delen har de oppgradert/modifisert ).
Hvis de hadde kjøpt denne delen alene fra Oppo, og ikke komplette spillere ( hvor mesteparten blir kastet ),
hadde sikkert flere her på forumet ikke tenkt på det som en "oppgradert" Oppo !
Så hvorfor har da ikke Ayre bare kjøpt den delen de trengte ?
Dette er iflg Charles Hansen grunnen
"There are two problems with this approach:
a) It would actually cost more to buy a kit of the required parts from Oppo. We are a small manufacturer, making specialized equipment that only appeals to the most dedicated enthusiasts. If we sold 1000 units a year it would be a miracle. But 1000 units is about a ten-minute run on the high speed automated assembly lines used by Oppo. It would take them far more time to change the setup to make a special version of the player for us than it would be worth.
b) The licenses required for DVD alone are about $150,000 up front and $50,000 a year, plus royalties on equipment that has nothing to do with the DVD patents. There is no point to pay the DVD Forum royalties on high quality power supplies, clock oscillators, audio circuitry, chassis, et cetera. All that would do is raise the prices for you, the consumer.
I didn't even bother to check into Blu-Ray, but it is undoubtedly even more expensive. By purchasing a complete, licensed player with all royalties paid, we can "modify" it to our heart's content without paying a dime. Plus we are not contractually obligated to observe the BDA's restrictions. "
Hvor passer da en DX-5 inn i forhold til mine valg og prioriteringer ?
Etter årevis med å ha eid og testet et utall av CD-spillere, ble jeg for ca et år siden en lykkelig eier av
en Ayre C-5xeMP.
Denne spilleren presenterte for meg et lydbilde på CD/SACD som gikk "rett hjem".
Når da Ayre sist høst og vinter begynte å vise frem sin DX-5, ble jeg veldig nyskjerrig.
Tanken på å spille musikk fra PC er noe som har begynt å modne seg, selv om en stor CD/SACD-samling
fortsatt vil være hovedkilden for god musikk.
Når så Charles Hansen lovte CD/SACD-ytelse minst på høyde med C-5xeMP
( i tillegg dekoder jo også DX-5 HDCD ), ble valget tatt !
BluRay-biten var for meg ikke så veldig viktig, da jeg bruker min nåværende BluRay-spiller forsvinnende lite.
Men som Øystein Sunde sier "Kjekt å ha"
Derfor var det veldig spennende sist onsdag etter at DX-5'n hadde fått spilt kontinuerlig siden
fredag's kveld.
Da var det nemlig tid for en "shootout" mellom DX-5 og C-5xeMP på CD.
Opplevelsen var en tanke bedre oppløsning i mellomtone og diskant, noe bedre definisjon i bass
og noe bedre dybde/plassering i lydbildet på DX-5.
Forskjellen var ikke så stor at jeg ville synes det var verd prisforskjellen bare som CD-spiller,
men Charles Hansen hadde da tross alt holdt det han hadde lovt !
Det har jo vært flere regnestykker nettopp i denne tråden,
og mitt regnestykke ser sånn ut !
Alternativ 1 : Ayre DX-5 = 80 000,-
Alternativ 2 : Ayre C-5xeMp = 59 500,-
Ayre QB-9 = 25 000,-
Ekstra kabel for QB-9 ( enhver får velge passende pris ) = ?
Oppo BDP-83SE ( eller lignende ) = 5 000,-
Sum = 89 500,- + kabel
Jeg har en distinkt følelse av hvordan type kunder slike produkter er rettet mot...
Vet ikke hva du forsøker i si her,
men min følelse av
hvilke type kunder slike produkter er rettet mot er :
Den som allerede har en veldig god CD/SACD-spiller og som ønsker et produkt som
ikke forringer ytelsen på dette området, men samtidig gir en mulighet til å nyte topp
kvalitets lydgjengivelse fra andre kilder/formater og samtidig slippe å fylle opp racket
med en masse bokser !
IMHO
Snorre
Hoyre
Linker til omtaler
Snell E5 & Kef Iq 3 selge...
